[QUOTE=Mardi;3478518]
Where did you find that tidbit ? just wondering…[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=slc2;3478563]
My impression is that most horse products are totally unregulated and it would be difficult for manufacturers to know what’s in em, let alone us know.[/QUOTE]
Correct.
[QUOTE=YankeeLawyer;3478553]
Not possible, (1) because the FEI list of prohibited substances is not exclusive (it is worded, certain specific categories, “including but not limited to”, so there is no way for anyone to say definitvely whether any product is banned justby reading the rules (except for gastroguard, apparently); (2) manufacturers and suppliers would be nuts to expose themselves to liability by making such a warranty; and (3) the rules are not set in stone; they are amended frequently, and it is impractical and burdensome for a manufactirer or supplier to stay abreast of these and also have to change their labeling every time the FEI makes a rule change.
That has more possibilities. But presumably there are many more products that are okay versus not okay, so it would make more sense for the FEI to provide an approved substances list, and then say that if not on the list, use at your own risk.[/QUOTE]
How could they it would be impossible for them to keep up with every change the manufactuer makes.
It always amazes me that people will post on these boards “facts” with they are completely unaware of the facts. Let me just tell you all that Mythilus had a serious heart condition on arrival in Hong Kong and had to be handled by vets other than the US vet. He had ultrasounds and 9 nose tubings. They were using medications that were not brought from the US, since the US vet never expected to have to treat his problem.
Let me also say that no one has ever seen Mythilus to be unsound since he was brought to the US.
However he did test positive and the FEI has the right to suspend Courtney even though she has no knowledge of how the drug came into contact with Myth. We will know more after the hearing. For those of you who have admired Courtney and believed in her, I hope you will continue to do so. She deserves it.
I don’t think anyone here thinks anything nefarious went on or that CKD’s reputation has been blackened over this.
Just remembering back to the Ulla/Rusty incident where no similar benefit of the doubt was given by the lynch mob.
It seems that our Federation is also standing behind Courtney:
http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/newsDisplay/viewPR.aspx?id=3541
For those of you who have admired Courtney and believed in her, I hope you will continue to do so. She deserves it.
She has a huge fan here in TX!
“It seems that our Federation is also standing behind Courtney:”
Unfortunately it doesnt’ seem like it matters… If the boogeyman or a chinaman (or chinese vet as the case may be) put the cream on the horse. It’s a banned substance.The rider is always responsible per the rules and she will probably get suspended.
I am happy to hear this!! Good for them!
Sometimes being a winner has a lot more to do with placings and ribbons.
When people can write relatively anonymously, what they will write is not surprising. My heart goes out to Ms. King-Dye because I have no doubt she was completely in the dark on what was used to regulate Mythilus’s arterial fibrillation issue (per the press release…who knows how accurate this is). I personally would want whatever means necessary used to save my horse as I am sure she did. However, if blame is to be layed, it is to the Olympic/FEI committee and their un-planned for rules. What would make sense is the vet’s providing a FULL/detailed list of drugs/pharmaceuticals used on the horse. If those items are on the banned list, the horse should be given a pass as long as it is fit to be ridden when the test comes around. At that point it should be clear that no inappropriate supplement has been provided previously as drawing blood prior to drug administration could be performed. This is the type of emergent situation that needs to be considered in the next Olympics.
Not knowing the details and not wishing to speculate, I would guess the list of what was used was not provided and I think it is an absolute travesty to our sport of Dressage and to this talented rider’s reputation to have anything else speculated other than an error in forethought by the Olympic committee and FEI to not consider all possible medical scenarios when asking rider’s to transport their precious cargo to countries where they will be required to use the available medical staff to assist in this level of life threatening emergency.
[QUOTE=specialops;3478785]
When people can write relatively anonymously, what they will write is not surprising. [/QUOTE]
What exactly has been written here that was so horrible?
Seems to me it’s just been a lot of discussion of exactly what you’re talking about–how could this possibly have come about? I’m sure that’s just what Ms King-Dye and the USEF are doing, trying to figure it out.
What exactly has been written here that was so horrible?
you may have missed the post on the dressage board. specialops, good information and post.
[QUOTE=ceffyl;3478206]
Traxam Gel[/QUOTE]
Is this by Rx only? It does not seem to be sold in the US as an OTC. Great Britain seems to be the only information center with a Google search.
So when the FEI said the pre-event drug test they were offering was to “minimize inadvertent medication violations…” they were just kidding, as the 4 show jumpers have found out.
Because 4 show jumpers (that we know about) used a substance that says it does not test–and apparently DID NOT TEST over the year or so of qualifying competitions, drug tests etc, as nearly all those horses were tested several times at the largest CSIs and CSIOs.
But FEI, in its usual strange stupidity, decides NOT to use thermography (even though they announced they would use thermography ‘at random tests’ all throughout the competition.
No, they did not use thermography which would have told us definitively if indeed there was capsaicin or any thing else of interest on the horse’s LEGS. (Because, frankly, if capsaicin is not on their legs, then the riders are not guilty of using it as a possible ‘hyper-sensitizing agent’)
Then, FEI releases a public statement that the event horses and the dressage horses had a wonderful and successful competition–meaning no positive drug tests.
But wait-- oops. That is not really correct…and now we have a U.S. dressage rider caught in their infernal and corrupt nightmare.
I am beginning to wonder if IOC has orchestrated all of this simply in order to move equestrian out of the Olympics…with collusion of at least a few idiots at FEI, crazy and conspiracy-paranoid as that sounds.
It is NOT POSSIBLE, in this day and age, to guarantee that a horse has not come into contact with all kinds of substances which leave metabolite trace in in their bodies.
Not substances, but their metabolites…which can cross-reference from two completely legal substances and produce a metabolite of something illegal, as for example, the metabolite of reserpine from certain horse foods.
And here , we probably have a case of the Hong Kong equine hospital facility inadvertently causing a trace of the metabolite of Felbinac to get into Mythilus’ system via ultrasound.
I am now officially utterly distressed.
Maybe this is why the head of the vet-department of the FEI quit before the Olympics started. It was no secret he didn’t agree with the drug-testing procedures.
I have posted it somewhere here, but can’t find it anymore.
Theo
With all due respect to you and ESPECIALLY to Lendon Grey, I am hard-pressed to find a post where someone said Courtney King did something intentionally to cover up a problem with her horse. Or that she shouldn’t have treated her horse for atrial fibrillation. Or that the situation was definitely not the result of an accidental exposure.
Courtney is an admired and very high-profile rider. She rides on the American team. This puts her into “celebrity status” amongst horse people. It is true, Lendon, that people don’t have the facts yet. But do you honestly expect that NO ONE will discuss this event online? That no one will speculate about what could have happened? Do you think people aren’t waiting for the facts? Do you honestly think that Courtney’s reputation will immediately become tarnished, and people won’t want to back her anymore? I think you might have missed the 14 “we love Courtney” threads and zeroed right into this one. Courtney is admired and loved by many, but she’s also a human being just like everyone posting here. She’s not untouchable because she’s famous.
So let people touch on her. If you actually read the posts, you’ll find that more people are hugging her than poking at her.
I can only imagine what Courtney is going through right now, and I hope this works out in her favor. What amazes me is that with all that medical treatment, why wouldn’t the assumption by the Team be that he would of course test positive for something (for pete’s sake, even camphor is banned), and the team take the opportunity before competition to give a list of what had been used on him and give some kind of explanation (“hey, the horse has been ill, we don’t know what he has been given or how long it lasts”) instead of waiting for it to show up in a drug test as if she’d done something illegal??
[QUOTE=Lendon Gray;3478716]
It always amazes me that people will post on these boards “facts” with they are completely unaware of the facts. Let me just tell you all that Mythilus had a serious heart condition on arrival in Hong Kong and had to be handled by vets other than the US vet. He had ultrasounds and 9 nose tubings. They were using medications that were not brought from the US, since the US vet never expected to have to treat his problem.
Let me also say that no one has ever seen Mythilus to be unsound since he was brought to the US.
However he did test positive and the FEI has the right to suspend Courtney even though she has no knowledge of how the drug came into contact with Myth. We will know more after the hearing. For those of you who have admired Courtney and believed in her, I hope you will continue to do so. She deserves it.[/QUOTE]
Strangely enough, in other venues such as politics, speculation on the internet has led to serious breakthroughs regarding the facts, because the facts are exposed to such a large worldwide audience, many of them highly expert in obscure fields, who have time, interest and such an immense and searchable database at their service.
For instance, this:
[QUOTE=Equibrit;3478439]
None of the names for that drug appear to be approved by the FDA;http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/Scripts/cder/DrugsatFDA/index.cfm?fuseaction=Search.SearchResults_Browse&DrugInitial=F
SO - not available in the United States.
The gel form of this medicine may be used in ultrasound as a coupling agent.[/QUOTE]
Both of these are simple facts that could be extremely important in the case. Does the FEI know them? Does the USEF? Does Courtney?
I wouldn’t assume that they do. How likely is it that the horse was ultrasounded for this heart condition? Vets may or may not even know what’s in a “coupling agent” themselves; this is a big deal to us but that doesn’t mean every vet in Hong Kong is hot on the worldwide medical database hunting down the drug and how it could have gotten into Mythilus.
Maybe someone who has access to people in critical positions on this case should make sure this information is known to them; time better spent than worrying about whether proper respect and lack of speculation is being practiced here.
I have posted a good number of posts defending the riders and pointing out the many possible ways one could have a positive test result through no fault of one’s own (as well as some shortcomings of the FEI regulations). A lot of people seem to prefer to assume the worst (though I agree that as to CKD, that has been much less the case). Maybe those who were thinking like that will now “get it.”
I don’t think that the "Doritos High " becomes a problem until you hit International competition.
