Here is a link to an FEI opinion rendered in a 2004 case involving Felbinac (which apparently is a metabolite of Fenbufen):
[QUOTE=YankeeLawyer;3478375]
Here is a link to an FEI opinion rendered in a 2004 case involving Felbinac (which apparently is a metabolite of Fenbufen):
Two things jumped out at me.
First, I laughed myself silly because the horse’s name was Mr. Innocent.
Second, he noted that a massuse/physio person had treated the horse. Is it possible that that person also used theraputic ultrasound, and thus gel containing Felbinac, on an earlier client that day? What if the residue was still on the massuse’s hands? Are the tests that sensitive?
There’s a clear conversation on the rewind video btw Courtney and the vet rep asking to take Mythilus for a blood test after her ride (I forget which one, freestyle I think). She sure doesn’t appear concerned or very focused about it, just says, “Sure, no problem” and signs the paper as he’s led away.
Maybe that’s meaningless but it’s just an observation.
excerpt
“In addition the PR is fined CHF 1,000.and is liable to pay 750.for the confirmatory analysis. The PR would also contribute CHF 250.towards
the costs of administering of this case, which is a reduced amount taking into consideration the time lag between event and decision.”
Interesting article on capsaicin and felbinac:
http://www.johnshopkinshealthalerts.com/reports/arthritis/128-1.html
None of the names for that drug appear to be approved by the FDA;http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/Scripts/cder/DrugsatFDA/index.cfm?fuseaction=Search.SearchResults_Browse&DrugInitial=F
SO - not available in the United States.
The gel form of this medicine may be used in ultrasound as a coupling agent.
OK, so you didn’t say only. But you definitely implied that show jumpers were decidedly more underhanded and unethical than dressage riders. For example:
[QUOTE=ridgeback;3461283]
Several lame dressage horses no dressage horses busted for dobing, showjumpers often busted for doping and many dressage horses could have used a little help since they were LAME [/QUOTE]
I’m not saying Courtney is evil by any means. But you were so frustratingly vocal about your less than positive feelings towards show jumpers on other threads…I know you won’t change or quiet down, I was just hoping.
I am sick to hear this. Ive turned into a HUGE CKD fan and I am so sad for her to deal with this. Im sorry this happened.
But you know what, screw it. She did awesome, her ride was soft, correct and beautiful to watch and in my eyes, she is 10x the horse woman most are.
Live and learn, move on…
[QUOTE=poltroon;3478035]
Well, you saw what I had to say about the show jumpers. I think they’ve gone all out of control and I think they picked a stupid time to ratchet up the sensitivity. I don’t think they’re catching people who are harming horses or taking unfair advantage.
Do they have any data for each of these substances to know what dose at what timeframe produces what result? For god’s sake, if we’re talking about shampoos creating positive tests, then I’m thinking that one take-out order of szechwan food for the grooms could’ve made every horse in the place positive for capsaicin.
Zero tolerance makes sense for reserpine, or cocaine, or other serious and detrimental substances. It does not make sense for the rest.
Remember, these rules are supposed to be about PROTECTING THE HORSE. It’s to protect the horse, not a purity test.
Well, I guess I’m glad that Brentina had her bad day after all.
Am I paranoid to be thinking that there still may be a shoe to drop for the Individual jumping?[/QUOTE]
I totally agree with this. All of it.
I know competitors are ultimately responsible for keeping their horses clean, but nabbing people for trace amounts of therapeutic substances seems to cause more problems than it’s helping.
And I really do wish they’d release the amounts that were found, so at least we’d have a clue as to who’s truly trying to cheat and who may have ordered the wrong carry out for the grooms the night before!
[QUOTE=BLBGP;3478440]
OK, so you didn’t say only. But you definitely implied that show jumpers were decidedly more underhanded and unethical than dressage riders. For example:
I’m not saying Courtney is evil by any means. But you were so frustratingly vocal about your less than positive feelings towards show jumpers on other threads…I know you won’t change or quiet down, I was just hoping.[/QUOTE]
Again, please show me where I have been overly vocal about my less then positive feelings toward show jumping. I posted very little in that thread that blew up to 18 pages(and for the life of me, I don’t understand that). Just FYI I rode jumpers not dressage and just to be clear I was pointing out that showjumpers do get themselves in more trouble than the dressage people. Were there any dressage people arrested and sent to prison for killing horses in the 90’s or were those ALL hunter/jumper people. I do get frustratingly vocal when people put words into my mouth. It does drive me crazy when people put their own spin on things instead of staying with the facts of what is written. So I do apologize for that but if people continue to misquote me, I will continue to set the record straight.
[QUOTE=ridgeback;3478484]
Again, please show me where I have been overly vocal about my less then positive feelings toward show jumping. I posted very little in that thread that blew up to 18 pages(and for the life of me, I don’t understand that). Just FYI I rode jumpers not dressage and just to be clear I was pointing out that showjumpers do get themselves in more trouble than the dressage people. Were there any dressage people arrested and sent to prison for killing horses in the 90’s or were those ALL hunter/jumper people. I do get frustratingly vocal when people put words into my mouth. It does drive me crazy when people put their own spin on things instead of staying with the facts of what is written. So I do apologize for that but if people continue to misquote me, I will continue to set the record straight.[/QUOTE]
Please, take it to PMs if you insist on bickering about issues not relevant to the topic.
[QUOTE=YankeeLawyer;3478500]
Please, take it to PMs if you insist on bickering about issues not relevant to the topic.[/QUOTE]
I know being a lawyer you like to tell people what to do but please stop especially when you JUST chimed in about me a page or so back…Stop with the hypocrisy Yankeelawyer. Oh by the way I hope this thread doesn’t blow up to 20+ pages.
See you in court.
[QUOTE=ridgeback;3478507]
I know being a lawyer you like to tell people what to do but please stop especially when you JUST chimed in about me a page or so back…Stop with the hypocrisy Yankeelawyer. Oh by the way I hope this thread doesn’t blow up to 20+ pages.[/QUOTE]
Have you posted anything to advance the discussion, or is it just all about you?
[QUOTE=Equibrit;3478439]
The gel form of this medicine may be used in ultrasound as a coupling agent.[/QUOTE]
Where did you find that tidbit ? just wondering…
[QUOTE=ridgeback;3478507]
I know being a lawyer you like to tell people what to do but please stop especially when you JUST chimed in about me a page or so back…Stop with the hypocrisy Yankeelawyer. Oh by the way I hope this thread doesn’t blow up to 20+ pages.[/QUOTE]
Hypocrisy? Really.
Originally Posted by freestyle2music
I wholeheartly agree but who is SOMEBODY.
ridgeback
Advanced Join Date: Jun. 6, 2006
Posts: 1,008
Somebody could be - groom, coach, competitor, judge, rider…
(emphasis mine)
Perhaps we should tell CKD’s groom you have accused him/her of drugging the horse. Oh, I guess if you like the rider, then the groom might be among the possible offenders. That must be it.
It seems like there should simply be better labeling on these products. FEI approved/ NON FEI approved. Perhaps a list of approved drugs for conditions needs to be prepared by the governing body. Drugs approved for treatment of colic, liniments, poultices, skin treatments. And if it is not on the list, you don’t use it.
While, yes- total rider responsibility- what a onerous task for every vet, groom and other handler to be aware of all of the components on that list- that I imagine is frequently updated. I have no clue what is in my horses liniment, fly spray, supplements and fungus treatment.
It seems like if it will be zero tolerance, the at MINIMUM the FEI needs to at least give solutions to people. I think the Beerbaum incident was the most ridiculous. Have a list- skin conditions- you can use X Y or Z.
I really think many of these cases are incidents of people innocently nabbed. I don’t think they are sneaking around using potions. The financial impact to these riders could be devastating. Not to mention the damage to reputation. Sure, take away a medal or a win. Prize money. But the fines and suspensions for these minor trace drugs are ridiculous. A career could be RUINED by a slip up by a vet or chiro. :no:
[QUOTE=Mardi;3478518]
Where did you find that tidbit ? just wondering…[/QUOTE]
Google it.
Not possible, (1) because the FEI list of prohibited substances is not exclusive (it is worded, certain specific categories, “including but not limited to”, so there is no way for anyone to say definitvely whether any product is allowed just by reading the rules (except for gastroguard, apparently); (2) manufacturers and suppliers would be nuts to expose themselves to liability by making such a warranty; and (3) the rules are not set in stone; they are amended frequently, and it is impractical and burdensome for a manufacturer or supplier to stay abreast of these and also have to change their labeling every time the FEI makes a rule change.
Perhaps a list of approved drugs for conditions needs to be prepared by the governing body. Drugs approved for treatment of colic, liniments, poultices, skin treatments. And if it is not on the list, you don’t use it.
That has more possibilities. But presumably there are many more products that are okay versus not okay, so it would make more sense for the FEI to provide an approved substances list, and then say that if not on the list, use at your own risk.
My impression is that most horse products are totally unregulated and it would be difficult for manufacturers to know what’s in em, let alone us know.
