Wish more UL riders and coaches had the mind set of the laws ! Not like some others who think the solution is making eventing more popular so they can make an easier living.
[QUOTE=LAZ;8115296]
It is not coming back.
We must find a way to maintain what is left of our sport.[/QUOTE]
I like this. 
I think there’s lots of room for middle ground to save the values of the old LF while keeping the better aspects of the SF.
The LF was a great test of horse and rider, but was not without serious issues. If you ask Mike Plumb about it, he’ll tell you that in the LF, you weren’t riding the horse you trained. The horse was a different horse after steeplechase and roads and tracks, and this wan’t a good thing given the dangers and uncertainties of XC.
I am not sure who from the US and Canada are our reps for eventing to the FEI. I know the Rep for the stewards only, for US is Janis Linnen and for Canada it is Jan Stephens.
Speakers at the FEI meeting in April include Charles Barnett (Formerly Ascot Racecourse and GBR). Giuseppe Della Chiesa (ITA) and Catrin Norinder (SWE). Other members are Daisy Berkeley (GBR- rider rep), Patricia Clifton (GBR), Marcin Konarski (POL), Gillian Rolton (AUS) and Rudiger Schwartz (GER).
There is no fixing corrupt organizations like the FEI and IOC. There is only blowing them up and starting over. Bureaucracies having an amazing ability to withstand the winds of change. The way you blow them is take away the thing they think they have power over.
[QUOTE=JER;8104646]
Eventing needs to show some leadership and foresight and extricate itself from the sinking ship of the Olympics.
The IOC is struggling to survive and remain relevant, but the truth is, in any just world, the IOC would be humanely destroyed. The IOC is a bastion of corruption and self-enrichment schemes, and the general public is catching on. The Olympic Games are unequivocally a boondoggle and huge drain of resources on the nation and local community that hosts the games. This is not news – it has been known since the early 1970s, when the citizens of Denver rejected the Games that had been awarded to the city. For those of you who are not familiar with this history, the Guardian ran an excellent piece on it last week: When Denver rejected the Olympics in favor of the environment and economics.
Since then, we’ve seen all kinds of disasters associated with hosting the Olympics. There was the Montreal financial debacle, the Salt Lake City bribing scandal, the unconscionable costs of Beijing and Sochi, the white elephants of disused billion-dollar buildings that make up an Olympic ‘legacy’. We’ve seen enough. It’s not pretty. Stop the effing bleeding already.
Right now, the IOC is in a bit of a pickle. No one wants to host the 2022 winter Olympics. Well, not exactly ‘no one’ – the two hopeful hosts are Almaty, in the kleptocracy known as Khazakstan, and then the winter sports hotspot known as Beijing. Seriously. The IOC is trying to bribe more savory locales (like Switzerland) but is finding little enthusiasm.
Why is this all relevant to eventing? Because the IOC is fighting to stay alive and corrupt, they’re trying to make deals with potential hosts. One upshot from the 2022 no-bids issue is that the IOC is now willing to let hosts axe certain sports or entire disciplines so that they don’t have to build the facilities. First up in the guillotine are the various ‘sledding’ sports: luge, bobsled, skeleton. The track is a huge expense and unlikely to be used again. None of these sports have any grassroots or public participation whatsoever. (I mean, when was the last time – or the first time – that anyone called you on Saturday morning and said ‘Let’s go luge.’) The IOC knows this, and no longer requires a track as part of a bid.
Recently, I was talking to the coach of the most successful women’s skeleton program (their top two girls came from eventing :)), and he said that sliding sports know their days in the Olympics are numbered. It’s a matter of when, not if.
I think the same is probably true of eventing, and this ‘equestrathlon’ nonsense makes it all the more probable. The answer for eventing, is not to turn the sport into this silly pageant for the dignitaries and criminals and corporate enablers of the IOC. It’s to get the hell out now.
The real reason sport orgs turn themselves inside out trying to please the IOC is because most sport orgs are presided over by people who are trying to get into the IOC. These are political animals of questionable morals who want to get into the IOC to get their piece of the real prizes on offer. Some are outright criminals, too. I can think of one sport in which the president of the IGB is a man with a criminal record who is extremely rich. His goal is to be an IOC member, but his criminal record is something that even that lot can’t overlook. He’s a lovely guy in person, enough to make you forget the criminal part, but what you can’t forget is that he’s using the sport as a means to achieve a goal that has nothing to do with the sport or the good of the sport.
Eventing doesn’t need the Olympics. I suspect if the FEI said ‘we want out’, the IOC would come crawling back, because the worst thing that could happen to them is a domino effect of sports realizing they don’t need to kowtow to this outdated consortium of corruption.[/QUOTE]
JER – this is the most cogent comment on this thread. (But, I have no disrespect to everyone else’s thoughtful remarks.) Thank you so much JER. I joined Coth Forums just to reply. This is my first ever message board post in fact!
Eventing will be out of the Olympics, eventually. Not if, but when. The question is whether there is enough foresight and courage by upper level riders and national sport management to call the question and walk now before the atrophy & withering death of the sport goes further. That entails personal, professional & financial risk. You can control your own destiny if you act first, when something appears to be inevitable. But, this is not looking good based on comments during and after that exhibition “thing” in Wellington, FL. The future of eventing is fancier dressage + The Hickstead Derby. One can accept it and go along to get along. Or, one can start real eventing anew outside of that debacle. Let the team riders and national management chase the Olympics down the FEI rabbit hole. They can be left holding the bag when the music stops. I give it 2 more Olympic cycles. Peace everyone. Have a good ride.
A very strange night’s sleep brought an even stranger idea to mind. While I strongly believe that eventing should stay a three discipline sport (and the endurance phase should be continued -a conviction only strengthened after reading the story about Lazy Dot in last week’s COTH), here’s a “new” way of looking at the equestrathlon:
Teams will be made up of a dressage rider, a stadium jumper, an endurance rider and an XC rider. That way the IOC will have combined 4 horse sports under one rubric. Think of the savings in medals alone! If only I could figure out how to get reining in there as well…
Now back to the serious and meaningful discussion.
The Cross Country for the Olympic has been pretty much 3 star for a while. They don’t want to kill off the riders and horses from some of the not so competitive countries.
My question is WHAT country do you think wants to build two cross country courses? or even the additional fences needed for 25 competitors.
I agree, they are making it more and more difficult for the eventers to eventually be able to eliminate them because of lack of numbers.
The French organization states they basically back the new proposed rules (team versus individual competitions, riders only in one, change XC fence designs and courses, but don’t accumulate team rider times, etc). They also want an “indoor arena eventing” series. Alas.
They posted to FEI:
[I]Dear All,
Please find below comments from french NF concerning eventing matters.
Our actual main objectives are to maintain the technical spirit of Eventing in the most secure and attractive way, for the riders and the spectators.
The welfare of the horse an issue that retains all of our attention.
?Based on this general introduction, and after consulting the links, here are the points that we would like to share :
-
For security reasons, the French Federation agrees that we must rethink ?the physical structure and location of the fences.
-
For the ?O?lympics, we ?also ?tend to think that we should ?separate? Team and Individual competitions?. The actual 2 jumping tests for Individuals must be questioned, as the jumping test is not the core of Eventing.?? But, on an economical aspect, w?ouldn’t this separation lead to higher costs for organizers?
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We agree on 4* and 3* for Team competition.
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We should be careful that Cross ?C?ountry remains the core of Eventing, and would like to keep the traditionnal order of tests, as well as the inspection before the final jumping test, ?crucial? for the welfare of the horse.
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We agree that the rider would only run one competition (Team or ?I?ndividual).
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We also agree that teams will be up to 3 members, with 1 reserve horse per team.
? -
We do not agree that competitors from one? team will ?ride one after the other in the three tests?, as it would too much of an advantage for the last teams to run.?
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We are also reserved, for security reasons, on the time of the round to be added for all team members for XC and SJ so that a faster round of one team member could counterbalance a slower round of another member?. The faster ones would probably take too many risks, and a rider should not compensate for another. The main objective for all should be to be as close as possible to the perfect time. Security and respect of the horse might be endangered.
? -
About technical matters, we are for the moment against? the penalty system related to knocking obstacle flags, as this rule might be random on fragilized flags, and as the fixation systems might be different depending on the countries.
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Eventhough we share all preocupations about the welfare of the horse, we believe that strong bitting can easy control.
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Last point, we think Indoor arena ?eventing?, with requirements specification and special tour, would usefully promote our sport.
Kind regards
Quentin Simonet
FRA NF - Sport department[/I]
[QUOTE=poltroon;8109174]
What most needs to change is that rider and horse deaths need to stop. The sport is completely sustainable if they stop and completely unsustainable if they don’t.
No one wants to go to a sporting event and watch the participants die. Everyone wants to watch horses and riders jump around cross country and go home ready to contest another day.
I don’t see any of these proposed changes addressing this most important point in any concrete way.[/QUOTE]
It’s sad, but while I feel this way it seems most do not. Another year, another horse euthanized at Rolex. EN has a great article that just popped up on Facebook on the best drinks of the weekend. There are posts here on how people can spectate more or what the fumnest moments were. Truth is I stopped watching the live feeds after 2007 and I assumed that others were turned off too. But- it really does not seem to be the case with people begging for tickets and talking about shopping and eating and drinking, now does it? It seems perfectly acceptable.
Or not unacceptable enough to get in the way of a weekend of fun.
[QUOTE=4Martini;8126410]
It’s sad, but while I feel this way it seems most do not. Another year, another horse euthanized at Rolex. EN has a great article that just popped up on Facebook on the best drinks of the weekend. There are posts here on how people can spectate more or what the fumnest moments were. Truth is I stopped watching the live feeds after 2007 and I assumed that others were turned off too. But- it really does not seem to be the case with people begging for tickets and talking about shopping and eating and drinking, now does it? It seems perfectly acceptable.
Or not unacceptable enough to get in the way of a weekend of fun.[/QUOTE]
if you didn’t watch the live feed how can you have an educated opinion? Honestly, the course this year rode extremely well. One of the best I’ve seen. Articles by Jimmy Wofford agree and hope this trend of well designed courses continue. Emily’s horse was not injured by the course but was an unfortunate galloping injury.
And a majority of these FEI changes would NOT promote safety of the horse or rider. I’m disappointed by the response of the French. We need some strong leadership from the riders to oppose these changes.
I read these when someone posted them on my facebook page.
Are these people even horse people? They are seriously clueless.
if these happen, it will be the final Sword to the heart of eventing.
Time to give up the olympics and form our own governing body. No more FEI.
If I did not know otherwise I would think people who had no clue about our sport came up with these… Wait, maybe they did.:no:
Am I remembering correctly that there was to be a meeting post-Rolex to discuss the FEI proposals? Does anyone have any intelligence from it? And I use the word advisedly.
Both COTH and EN posted coverage updates…not sure from what I am reading that the FEI will make the wisest choice with regards to eventing, in their efforts to please the IOC.
It seems that there were many presentations by countries and rider organizations at the Forum. Does anyone know if their opinions have been posted online? I found a formal response from New Zealand at the FEI Sports Forum page. It’s here if anyone wishes to read it. I personally agree with everything New Zealand said.
http://www.fei.org/system/files/Eventing_Future_NZL_NF_Response_Session_4.pdf
There are also several ERA documents there. One, a table of responses, is unreadable on the FEI site. I haven’t been to the ERA site to see if they have a legible one. They do. It’s here:
http://eventingriders.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/FEI-2015-Forum-ERA-Int-Response-Table.pdf
The FEI has published several other ERA documents.
http://www.fei.org/fei-sports-forum/supporting-docs-2015
The European Equestrian Federation Working Group (Chris Bartle) has a suggestion paper here: http://www.fei.org/system/files/Session%204_EVE_Future_EEF_Alternative%20Proposal%20for%20Eventing%20Olympics.pdf
IMHO, the coverage by EN is worthless. They are simply republishing the FEI’s press release, which is here:
http://www.fei.org/news/fei-sports-forum-2015-dressage-and-eventing-sessions-discuss-proposed-format-changes COTH did a much better job with some reporting of the actual discussions. http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/fei-discusses-sweeping-changes-sports-forum
The United States made a presentation during the dressage discussion, but it’s not listed in the Eventing section as a presenter. Did it and what did it say? Same for Canada, but they don’t seem to have spoken out at the dressage section.
There is a document from the French and a document from the British Event Horse Owners Association on the FEI Forum here: http://www.fei.org/forums/eventing-future.
I did the course walk with Wofford Friday. His main comment is Derek’s courses are different from others and in his opinion superior.
From what I saw, there were no trappy, OMG fences or combinations. Instead the fences tested the rider’s ability to steer (right/left) and the horse’s courage to jump a maximum sized fence.
I did not see the entire course but what I did see was great. There were plenty of black flag options so riders could take a longer, slower route and still finish.
The 2 falls I did see - one went too flat at the 2nd of 2 fences and skidded across the top - we met horse and rider walking back and both appeared to be OK. The other fall looked to be the horse went hard right over the big ditch/wall in the big field and just jumped the rider off - horse galloped off. We saw another horse gallop backwards in the galloping lane, rider fell at the same ditch/wall again the horse was ok.
Given the conditions most had to ride through I was pleasantly surprised at how well everyone did. Many retired after the 1 stop, while a few continued to the 2nd or 3rd stop.
In short this was one of the better Rolex competitions I have attended. The course tested without being, IMO, dangerous.
Again my condolences to the NZ rider whose horse re-injured himself on XC. Agree with many others, it could have happened on a pre-competition conditioning gallop, in the field or on course.
Why are so many people willing to gut the sport of eventing just to keep it in the Olympics?
I don’t get it.
I mean, it’s already not the same sport as it was in the days of the long format, but why are we so willing to keep succumbing to the IOC’s every whim? If significant changes are to be made to the format, they should be made in the interest of improving horse and rider safety, not simply making it easier for casual spectators and Olympic host cities without existing eventing venues.
While I like the idea of having eventing in the Olympics in theory – who didn’t dream of riding in the Olympics as a kid? – I’d rather keep our sport, and lose the Olympics.
Instead of spending time, money and effort temporarily appeasing the IOC, why not put those resources toward making eventing safer, and maybe making the WEGs more sustainable so that we can have an international championship for actual eventing rather than some watered down, made-for-tv version?
Or we can keep redesigning our sport every 4 years until it’s totally unrecognizable by the time equestrian sports are inevitably cut from the Olympic program.
What Sticky Situation said.
I wonder if federations want the sport in the olympics because it gives some federal funding for the athletes that they normally wouldn’t get?
That makes sense.
[QUOTE=Jazzy Lady;8129789]
I wonder if federations want the sport in the olympics because it gives some federal funding for the athletes that they normally wouldn’t get?[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure what you mean.
IME, with various sports federations in two different countries, NSFs don’t care so much about ‘funding for athletes’. The NSF is more likely to lobby for money for itself than for ‘athletes’, who are on the caboose end of the funding gravy train if the NSF has any say in the matter. A common variation on this theme is for the NSF to promote and nurture athletes who come from money and whose families are willing to make donations.
Olympic sports are funded in different ways by different countries. There is umbrella organization – SportAccord – that oversees funding along with the IOC, although these two organizations had a recent falling out, with the SportAccord president accusing the IOC of a lack of transparency and corruption.
In the US, there’s a USOC umbrella org that gives every Olympic sport a piece of the revenues, mostly from broadcast rights. This money does not necessarily make it all the way to athletes. You might see funds within a sport allocated to ‘athlete development’, which often means that no one knows where that money goes. (But you must understand, there are travel budgets and swank hotel bills to be paid to the sport’s administrators and officers. :))
In Canada, there are targeted sports that are funded through the noxious Own the Podium program, and little else for any sports that aren’t targeted. I linked earlier to a recent National Post article about how Canada’s modern pentathlon program – which consistently features world-class athletes – struggles to get any money at all. Meanwhile, some winter sports, despite being inaccessible and unaffordable to most Canadians and utterly lacking in grass roots, receive relatively generous stipends because Canada wants medals.
I’m not sure how ‘federal funding’ comes into play. Team GB is largely lottery funded, but that’s not the same thing. France, Italy, Brazil, and Germany, for example, have sport clubs funded by various divisions of police or military, and athletes are funded through those clubs, including often having a nominal job in the department.
