FEI looks at sweeping changes in Eventing

[Sticky_Situation]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8112936]
I’ve just re-read the FEI proposal document. I may be wrong, but I see a guiding hand whose ultimate goal is the death of the CCI. One of the proposals is to “merge” the CCI and CIC 1* and 2s into a single format. Another is to create a CIC 4, which, as I read it is a separate proposal from the 1.05m “pony” competition that would renumber up all the events. If the CCI only exists as a 3* and 4* competition with the vast majority of lower class competitions having XC last, what are the odds that down the line, the CCI is killed off completely, even though the core principle of the sport, per the FEI, is dressage-XC-SJ, with the second jog being important for horse and rider safety. What would be the justification for a different sport at the 1* and 2* level?

What I don’t understand is if that is the case, the FEI allows CICs to do without the second jog and put XC last. There’s a disconnect between the “core” principles and the “new” practices–all of which are post 2002.

As to the 3* Team Championships with 4* for Individuals, one supposes that the course designer would design a single course with alternative routes at the true 4* fences and would adjust the Team time accordingly.

The proposal document isn’t a unified whole. It looks to me as if there are proposals from various sources that have been thrown out for discussion. There doesn’t seem to be a unified vision behind them with data to support any of the change proposals.

I think in responding each proposal needs to treated separately on its own merits.[/QUOTE]

I agree, the FEI wants to work toward doing away with the CCI format altogether and make their new “spectator friendly” CIC format with XC last the new norm. I could see it eventually going in the direction of the “eventing redux” form that was used in Wellington. This will keep the IOC happy, because an XC course won’t be needed at the host venue … Just a field and some portables.

If the only competitions available are significantly shortened and therefore less demanding from a fitness standpoint, more horses will be able to make it to the top levels and compete, and upper level horses will be able to compete more often with less recovery time (and probably required to in order to qualify for championship competitions). This = more money to the FEI. It will be more like the competition model used in showjumping.

I personally don’t think it’s better for the horses to competing in CICs at the highest level every other weekend all year round rather than doing HTs and CICs to build up to one big CCI followed by a significant amount of downtime… But it probably is better for the FEI’s bank account.

Strangely, there are a couple of suggestions, such as the XC bit rule, that could have some merit if implemented properly … But they just seem out of place in that whole mess.

[retreadeventer]

The whole thing feels like it’s being viewed completely from a cloistered European sport-TV perspective, where anything less than large full stadiums of wildly partisan fans is a complete failure for a sport.

Our circumstances are so different here, and I think in other non-Europe parts of the world such as NZ, Australia, etc.

Why can’t they simplify things rather than junk around with it and make it some sort of crazy offshoot amalgam of dressage and show jumping?

[goodmorning]

[QUOTE=Thames Pirate;8113658]
I see exactly the same and said as much in my feedback to the FEI. The change of penalties to 10 moves us in the same direction. I see our sport at the FEI becoming the home of rejected jumpers, a sad conglomeration of less than top dressage, less than top jumpers, and some weird shadow of what we used to call XC.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. And convincing sponsors & owners that it’s anything but subpar BS will become difficult, the money will go elsewhere, and then…TPTB decide oops; too little too late…

[Thames_Pirate]

They already told us that by losing the long format we would be fine–that was enough. Now it’s not. They continue to gut the sport. Again, we can’t beat the Germans at their game. We need to play the game we WANT to play. They are welcome to participate and play the game we used to love.

Ditch the FEI, ditch the Olympics, reinstate the long format, and if the rest of the equestrian and sporting world wants to play, fantastic. If not, we will just have fun doing what we love. The USEA can join with other national eventing bodies (British Eventing, Eventing Canada, etc.) or do its own thing. If we lead, I wonder how many would follow? Eventing International, our new governing body (open to sensible name suggestions), can oversee the CICs and CCIs. We will only come under the governance of the FEI again if they agree to our terms, not the other way around.

I am not sure if this is a viable option or how we go about implementing it if it is, but hey, wasn’t there a call for crazy ideas? We’re Americans–aren’t we supposed to be world leaders in, like, everything? Aren’t we supposed to be entrepreneurs? Aren’t we supposed to be a little off our rockers?

[redalter]

[QUOTE=Thames Pirate;8114385]
They already told us that by losing the long format we would be fine–that was enough. Now it’s not. They continue to gut the sport. Again, we can’t beat the Germans at their game. We need to play the game we WANT to play. They are welcome to participate and play the game we used to love.

Ditch the FEI, ditch the Olympics, reinstate the long format, and if the rest of the equestrian and sporting world wants to play, fantastic. If not, we will just have fun doing what we love. The USEA can join with other national eventing bodies (British Eventing, Eventing Canada, etc.) or do its own thing. If we lead, I wonder how many would follow? Eventing International, our new governing body (open to sensible name suggestions), can oversee the CICs and CCIs. We will only come under the governance of the FEI again if they agree to our terms, not the other way around.

I am not sure if this is a viable option or how we go about implementing it if it is, but hey, wasn’t there a call for crazy ideas? We’re Americans–aren’t we supposed to be world leaders in, like, everything? Aren’t we supposed to be entrepreneurs? Aren’t we supposed to be a little off our rockers? ;)[/QUOTE]

I vote for you to be the PRESIDENT of this new group!!:yes:

[hb]

[QUOTE=Thames Pirate;8108783]
I also disagree with the need for prize money. Funny, tons of people did the sport before the prize money and continue to do so. A few prizes are great, but prize money gears the sport ever more toward pros and might make riders make decisions differently–it’s easier to give up on a $0.50 ribbon than a 10K prize. Furthermore, where is that money coming from? Could it be used elsewhere or to make the event cheaper to enter in the first place?

Entry fees have gotten more expensive as we have demanded fancier events. The $95 entry fee went the way of the dodo because we became too good to jump tires and demanded carved squirrels and flowers. (That’s fine for Rolex, but the BN-T HT should be simple and cheap to put on). We became a sport of pros and are moving ever more into hunter land. This isn’t necessary. A full time dentist won individual gold the '08 Games. Don’t misunderstand–our sport needs pros, too. However, building a sport AROUND the needs of the pros is counterproductive.

I also agree that we need to keep an eye on what our sport is, was, and could be. To that end, here’s a crazy idea: Give up on the Olympics. Seriously. Heck, maybe even ditch the FEI and start our own group, either nationally or domestically.[/QUOTE]

THANK YOU!

[Thames_Pirate]

Where is Denny? If he agrees to be VP, I’m in!

ETA–Ironically enough, I am half German and a dual citizen. Think I can get the German FN to join us?

[redalter]

[QUOTE=Thames Pirate;8114549]
Where is Denny? If he agrees to be VP, I’m in!

ETA–Ironically enough, I am half German and a dual citizen. Think I can get the German FN to join us?[/QUOTE]

That would be awesome! A few of us were talking about this over the weekend - an let me give this disclaimer - I am a LL smurf to be sure - but overall, there are so many that feel that the sport has just morphed into something else - and the FEI are doing nothing, actually in this case they are making it worse.

I LOVE your ideas!

[Outyougo]

On a slightly different track check out the H/J Forum re: Las Vegas course being extreemly difficult. Maybe Eventing is not alone on FEI’s ^$& list

[Lord_Helpus]

[QUOTE=Thames Pirate;8114385]
They already told us that by losing the long format we would be fine–that was enough. Now it’s not. They continue to gut the sport. Again, we can’t beat the Germans at their game. We need to play the game we WANT to play. They are welcome to participate and play the game we used to love.

Ditch the FEI, ditch the Olympics, reinstate the long format, and if the rest of the equestrian and sporting world wants to play, fantastic. If not, we will just have fun doing what we love. The USEA can join with other national eventing bodies (British Eventing, Eventing Canada, etc.) or do its own thing. If we lead, I wonder how many would follow? Eventing International, our new governing body (open to sensible name suggestions), can oversee the CICs and CCIs. We will only come under the governance of the FEI again if they agree to our terms, not the other way around.

I am not sure if this is a viable option or how we go about implementing it if it is, but hey, wasn’t there a call for crazy ideas? We’re Americans–aren’t we supposed to be world leaders in, like, everything? Aren’t we supposed to be entrepreneurs? Aren’t we supposed to be a little off our rockers? ;)[/QUOTE]

And who is going to pay for the construction of the steeplechase course? And buy the land (even if it still exists) for the miles of roads and tracks? Then riders/owners have to buy and develop horses that can excel at the long format. Today’s event horses are meant to compete in the short format.

Much as you might want to bring back the long format, land limitations and budgetary considerations have made it an anachronism. That ship has sailed and the short format is here to stay.

Better to put your energy and enthusiasm into maintaining what is left of the original intent behind the sport.

[Thames_Pirate]

Even if the LF is gone forever, should we just cave to the FEI’s desire to continue to gut the sport?

[vineyridge]

The slow erosion of the CCI has become as big a problem as the change from long format. The 4s that existed prior to 2005 (Badminton, Burghley, Rolex, and Adelaide) HAD the space for Roads and Tracks and HAD a steeplechase course. They don’t have any problems with a full 4 CCI course. But the FEI has continued to whittle away at the course length requirement for CCIs, and the CIC was created to be a short form. In fact, the FEI now calls the CCI “long format” and the CIC “short format”. The Germans and probably the Swedes and other continentals would be perfectly happy for the CCI to vanish, I truly believe. The German events that used to be CCI have almost all converted to CICs. Since 4s and Games are CCIs, the Continentals seem to have retained maybe three or fewer CCIs for qualification purposes to run the 4 and Games requirements. This seems to be the emerging pattern all over the event world. In order to run a 4*, you have to have a MER at a CCI 3*. In order to run a CCI 3*, you have to have a MER at a CCI 2*. For a 2* there is no requirement for a 1* CCI–all MERS can come from CICs. Since 2002 and the start of the CIC it’s become perfectly possible to spend a lifetime in eventing and NEVER see a CCI; the only thing you give up is competition at 4*s. And the CIC is clearly designed to eliminate the need for stamina; it was instituted before the true long format was binned and it was deliberately designed, IMO, for WBs.

[Thames_Pirate]

Which is why I would advocate bringing back the LF–not only is it fun, but it CAN be done. If we restart it at the events that used to have them and DO have the space–Badminton, Rolex, Burghley, Adelaide, many of the 2 and 3 star venues elsewhere that are still running–the rest will follow. There are plenty of places to pick up the slack, at least here in the US–Rebecca comes to mind. If it is done now, before the whole thing is a memory, the sport will follow. We can still have CICs, though we could return to the earlier days, when they were run in the D-XC-SJ format and used as a prep for the CCIs.

I know it’s probably a pipe dream, but we should keep the conversation going–especially now, as the FEI seeks to undermine our sport more. I do see a potential split–FEI eventing and Old School Eventing. The ULRs who want Olympics and quicker, easier success will go with the former. The people who loved the sport as it was (and that will end up being much of the base) will go with the latter. I fear the former would win out with most of our ULRs, though. Too much money involved. Cheaper and easier.

If the USEA doesn’t hold its ground here, though, our sport is no more.

[clivers]

Has everyone read this blog post by the Leslies (aka the Laws) about the proposed changes? Love them for going on record with this:

http://www.horse-canada.com/unfiltered-eventing/woof-woof-the-fei-is-barking-again/

[skydy]

[QUOTE=clivers;8115241]
Has everyone read this blog post by the Leslie’s (aka the Laws) about the proposed changes? Love them for going on record with this:

http://www.horse-canada.com/unfiltered-eventing/woof-woof-the-fei-is-barking-again/[/QUOTE]

That was a good explanation of the lapse of the FEI “brain”.

[LAZ]

From someone that puts considerable effort into running a N3DE & T3DE–the long format is gone above the Training Level. (other than MSEDA, which gets a whopping 10 or less entries for their classic P3DE).

It is not coming back.

We must find a way to maintain what is left of our sport.

I thought the Law’s article was quite good, and I really appreciate it that Lesley and Leslie are willing to put themselves out there.

I know a number of UL riders/trainers that are very concerned and working in many ways for safer options–don’t mistake a lack of beating their breast on social media for not doing anything.

[pcwertb]

I love that the Laws are willing to put it out there. I am disappointed with the FEI and the fact that it appears they put out an agenda without actually taking a close look at what they were proposing.

For the record, I am not an upper level rider, but I do own a CCI 2* pony and I am an FEI steward (eventing and dressage). I have spoken to other eventing stewards, and they are as appalled at the FEI proposal as I am.

[LAZ]

It’s going to be up to the riders/owners/organizers/governing bodies to make a big enough ruckus to get the FEI in line with the real world.

We are all in this together–we need to find a way to work cohesively together to get useful safety changes while not gutting our sport or making a mockery of the original sport and its tests and challenges.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Who are the representatives for eventing to the FEI from the US and Canada?

[tootles]

Until a couple of the national organizations like USEA break away and say we are not going to play by the FEI rules then the sport will continue to devolve.