felt versus fleece flocking and horn versus no horn

[myblackmorgan]

Hi all,

Thank you in advance for your advice. I had a very serious accident this year and am now back in the saddle but not 100% comfortable in my dressage saddle - still working on getting balance back. So I am going to buy a Western.

1. I have a short backed Morgan, so I prefer the Endurance skirt for it’s minimal hip interference and lighter weight. I am ordering a custom Dixieland, with modified Arab tree, and have an option of felt or fleece flocking (English term but don’t know what else to call it!).

Can you tell me what you like/don’t like about either? Is it worth extra money to get felt?

2. I definitely want some sort of a hand hold in case of a big spook. I find the pommel on a hornless endurance to be quite wide - I am petite and it just feels big to hold on to. A horn seems so much more more grabbable, but I know it can be a source of injury as well.

Can you tell me the pros and cons of horn versus no horn for a person that needs a bit of a crutch at the moment. Would just be doing trail riding - no big endurance stuff.

Many thanks!

[Auventera_Two]

I think horns are dangerous for the kind of riding I do, but they’re fine for trail riding as long as you’re not climbing steep hills or getting yourself into really thick areas. I’ve been gouged in the ribs going up hills or ducking tree limbs. I also had a serious injury to a boob when I was mounting from the ground and my horse spooked. He drove that horn hard into me and I still have problems because of it. I just don’t like horns. I like attaching a grab strap to the front rings on my saddles. You can make them out of an old flash strap or you can buy them from places like Dressage Extentions.

[Shadow14]

I don’t like horns either. They can really inflict injury. I know a heavy lady that had her horse jump a ditch and she was impaled on the horn. A very serious injury.
They also jab you in the gut when you duck or jump.
I would not get a saddle anymore with a horn If you really need something to hold on to and you could screw a nice grab strap onto the pommel

[Guilherme]

Felt or fleece is pretty much a personal choice. Each has good and bad points. If you go with fleece get the “real stuff” not a synthetic. It will cost more but give a much better result.

Regarding hand holds, if you’ve not roached you horse’s mane you’ve got a very nice “built in” grip system!!!

If that’s not what you want, then there are a wide variety of “sissy straps” that you can put on the pommel. I’ve got one and use it as required. I try not to become reliant upon it, however. It’s an “emergency hand hold” not a substitute of a good seat and balance.

Horns were put on Mexican (and later on Western saddles) as a place to dally a rope. They can also be used as places to hang stuff. And they can help older males requalify for a place in the local boy’s choir. They do pose some risk of injury if you’re doing something that a Western saddle was not really designed to do (like showjumping). But if you’ve got a decent seat you can take a log or a small ditch without undue risk.

Take a look at the Buena Vista, Trooper, or Plantation saddles as alternatives for trail riding.

G.

[Perfect_Pony]

I too was a bit of a chicken trail riding my young mare. I ended up buying a used Circle Y arabian saddle (for my mare’s short and wide back). I was a little worried about the horn at first, but the guy gave me an offer I could not refuse and it fit my mare perfectly.

The saddle has been a godsend on the trail. The horn for me is at the perfect height to rest my hand and mosey on down the trail. However, if I had bought new I most likely would have bought hornless.

[Mersy]

I’m not real fond of horns myself, have been hung up one, luckly I didn’t get hurt. I have also smacked my breastbone on the horn, smarts for awhile.
As far as having a hand hold I have used the breastcollar strap, the mane, and have used a leather strap attached to the D rings.
Since you rode in a dressage saddle before you might find that the horn is in the way on your western.
If you do go for a horn make sure it is low profile, they are a little easier to stay clear of.

[myblackmorgan]

fleece, felt, horns and such

Thanks guys.

So far, what I have found out about the felt skirt lining is that it is breathable, gives a good cushion, and allows one to use a quilted endurance/trail pad instead of a typical heavy (and hard to clean) western pad. Please tell me if, from experience, you disagree.

I am still researching the horn/no horn bit, but looks like my choices are either:

1. a very wide diameter hornless pommel with a 13 1/2" swell (don’t like the former, but do like the latter)

2. diito above but with 3 1/2" horn (shorter not available)

3. a slim diameter pommel - so easier to grab. Trying to find out swell width - if over 11", that would be my first choice.

Any thoughts?? Thanks!

[joe21]

I once slammed my breastbone on a saddle horn. We were running up a very steep hill and I wasn’t fully ready. Hurt like heck, but no real harm done. Lesson learned, and I know better for next time.

The real problem with the horn/no horn dilemma is that you say you want a western saddle. If you are looking at western and do NOT want a horn, you severely limit your choices. There are some nice Tucker trail saddles and some others styles that will work nice. After that, the pickings are slim. Plus, if you don’t like the ride of one of these saddles, or they don’t fit your horse it can be a bigger issue than having/not having a horn.

There are other western saddle styles that have a horn, but can minimize the “problems.” “Wade tree” saddles, for example, usually have a pretty short and wide horn. This keeps is more out of the way of some other styles with a high, thin horn.

Another advantage of a wade tree design (and some others) is that it offers a very deep “pocket”. This could help boost your confidence in the saddle so you won’t feel the need to “hold on” to something.

Hornless/horn really doesn’t matter (unless you have to rope something). What will matter down the road is having a good quality saddle that is comfortable for you and your horse. Don’t rule out any saddle with a horn if you don’t have to. There may be some short and/or wide horns out there that will work for you and your horse.

[jazzrider]

If you’re riding a horse the you know is prone to throwing you (or you come off of easily because of emergency stop/spooks), don’t get a saddle with a horn. It’s just asking for trouble (I speak from extensive experience :no:). But if you’re riding a relatively solid horse and just want it for security (something to hold onto when you’re feeling insecure), then go for it.

[gabz]

The felt versus fleece… so long as they are not made from nylon … should be either would be okay.
For cleaning the felt, I use the slick & easy blocks to “scrape” off any hair or hay, etc. Then lightly brush away any crumbs from the S&E block.

For cleaning fleece, a grooming brush is usually adequate.

Since you will have a pad between the saddle and the horse, there isn’t much difference.

so far as the horn dilemma. Some saddle manufacturers can add a small diameter, FORWARD facing horn. But since you are more used to a dressage saddle, I don’t recommend it. I suggest a cheater strap attached to the D-rings that will come up and over the pommel AND… you should learn to grab the CANTLE with one hand or the other. Grabbing the cantle will keep you off the horse’s withers and shoulders, will keep your butt in the saddle, and your weight back over your feet. More likely to keep you IN the saddle. Tipping forward (grabbing the horn), unbalances the rider.

BUT if you are riding with a snaffle i.e., 2-hands, neither the horn or the cheater strap will help in an emergency. That’s where learning how to lay on the horse’s neck and wrap your arms around the neck is more helpful - AND YOU DON’T WANT a horn in the way. : )

You could ask the saddle maker to make a nice rolled leather strap, that flattens out at each end and has snaps at each end, that will reach from one side to the other.
Good Luck.

Your other consideration will be your stirrup leathers. If you are used to dressage with narrow leathers, you may find the western style is harder on your ankles and lower leg. Discuss with the saddle maker your inseam length and the length of your stirrup fenders.

[gabz]

western pads do not need to be heavy and hard to wash.

I like hospital or wool felt pads… 5/8" up to 1" depending on the horse, saddle, use, etc. Or - a simple woven wool over a thin felt (3/8" felt).

I can wash the pads by hand… or if they get really terrible. I throw them out and buy new ones.

Be sure to get a CONTOUR pad with rounded back edge. (Another good thing about the felt pads… you can cut them to shape!)

[myblackmorgan]

Interesting point about a wider horn head - hadn’t thought about how that would impale the rider less. And the grabbing of the horse’s neck in an emrgency is good - but I imagine a hornelss endurance style pommel might be in the way for that as well? I do ride in a snaffle, so have a hard time envisioning grabbing the cantle, but see how that would seat the rider better. All good points.

I’ll look at Wade saddles, but I see a lot of features I like in the Dixieland. The tree manufacturer has a modified Arab tree that seems a great fit for my Morgan and I am ordering short fenders with extra holes (I’m 5’2") and have bought the apparatus to attach to the stirrups so they rotate without having to twist the fenders. Yes, I do find most western saddles hard on my knees and ankles - especially since I tore my MCL in the accident.

My question on the wool felt skirt lining is if anyone has bought that - I think Tucker is the only non-custom dealer that offers it (?) - and if it enabled them to use a quilted endurance/trail pad instead of an expensive thick pad. But the hints on cleaning those pads is good if that’s what I have to get.

If anyone out there has a Morgan, Arab or gaited horse, check out
http://www.dixielandgaitedsaddles.com/

Lots of verbiage to read through but also lots of pictures. Seems real good value for money…

Thanks all!

[gabz]

With a Wade-type saddle, there are little to no pommels on either side of the horn. One gal I know added bucking rolls to her Wade-type, gaited horse saddle.

But if you are considering a Wade for the large horn… if you are petite, the large horn like that (and short to the saddle too) will be FAR to large to grab onto for security. The lack of pommel on either side will afford you less security as well.

If you can find an image of Clinton Anderson in his Aussie stock saddle (it’s a custom saddle, I’m sure as it’s more like an American western than a true Aussie stock) … there is no horn and the pommel is angled back toward the rider - providing an area to keep your thigh down against the saddle.

Here’s a link to his saddle … http://downunderhorsemanship.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=32&products_id=243

Otherwise, an Aussie saddle would have been a good saddle for you. There is a new saddle maker whose name escapes me right now (I know a retailer that is carrying his saddles), but he is building endurance type saddles that combine western and Aussie. The best part is the underside of the saddle is leather - it’s panels like an Aussie which I think is a far better way to do it. but rather than wool or felt, the panels are leather!! Much easier to keep clean. It’s like the underside of a good English saddle. The panels can be reflocked / re padded, etc and provide a means to adjust the saddle fit.

[myblackmorgan]

Hi Gabz,

Saddle looks interesting - sort of a modified bear trap pommel. But only FQH bars - my horse is way too hard of a fit for that. Just my luck…

[gabz]

Oh right… forgot about the rounded skirt / smaller saddle…

Well… you’ve got plenty to think about. Are there any expos or Equine Affairs coming near you? QH Congress in Ohio in the fall…

Shopping and trying and testing… be sure to check all tack online shops … many have demo saddles. sstack, national bridle, ValleyVet,