Female Saddle Fit - may be NSFW?

[sdlbredfan]

@Mango20

Here’s what VPL says to onlookers: “hey, I’m wearing underwear”. Is that so bad? You should at least give underwear a try and see if it makes a difference. There are types out there that claim not to leave panty lines, but I haven’t really tried them out. I’m okay with people knowing I wear underwear.

I love this, and vote it for best.answer! Riding is, or should be IMO,a sport rather than a fashion event. Wearing underwear is a normal, and ‘good’ thing, so why worry if someone knows you have some on.

[ObviousAlter11]

@Libby2563

Have you always ridden in a thong, in all these years on different horses in different saddles? Maybe that is the common denominator. I tried it once for a show (dressage, white breeches, VPL) and regretted it tremendously. Most thongs are not only narrow between the cheeks but also in front, and the narrow front part can cause some serious chafing. I’d try normal bikini-style panties at least a few times to see if it helps. If it does, at least you can make an informed decision and look for some combos of panties and breeches that meet your aesthetic needs as well.

I feel your pain. It’s happened to me on and off over the years. Not for some time though and I can’t think of what has changed actually. I did use Chamois Butt’r for a while. I did find that it stings if you put it on skin that is already chafed so it really has to be a preventative measure only (for me anyway). I did not find that padding helped because it just added to the bulk against the saddle and added another layer of things that could get bunched, distorted, etc. It’s all worth a try though, especially since it’s not clear whether your problem is pressure or chafing. Also consider a yeast infection. I had bleeding and weird, deep pain during “other activities” (canoeing, not for kids) but no itching or anything obvious like that, and treating for yeast resolved it.

I’ve worn thongs for perhaps half my riding life? Maybe a little less? For me, the narrow front is an asset - anything that sits right where my pelvis meets my leg (some thongs are wide enough to do this - I steer very clear) turns it into a bit of a knife where the seam rubs back and forth. The cheeks don’t bother me, fortunately. It couldn’t hurt to try the bikini ones though (well, couldn’t hurt long-term), so I will give it a shot! The longer options mentioned by someone else seem interesting, since they wouldn’t sit in that join between my leg and pelvis, so I’ll try that too.

Good to know about preventative measure. Fortunately, this is enough of an issue that it’s painful but not so much that I’m not back to normal in a day or two, so I should be able to give this a shot! That is definitely my fear about padding - the distortion you mention. I am not wounded to the point of bleeding (well, not anymore), but will investigate the yeast issue as well.

Thank you so much for all of the helpful thoughts!

[ObviousAlter11]

@Frivian

Full seats provide extra grip and extra protection for long periods of time in the saddle. I once wore knee patch breeches for a 2+ hour XC schooling outing and experienced chafing for the first time ever. Yes, they can be hotter and slightly less comfortable to walk around in, but you get used to that and it’s worth it for the comfort.

Kerrits breeches tend to feel more like “diapers” than some of the other brands. I have some cheap Grand Prix breeches that I got on TOTD for like $35 and those are by far my favorites for schooling. Light, breathable, and still have a nice full seat. My show breeches are Goode Rider and those are very comfortable too.

I will give it a shot! Maybe see if I can find some used for a smaller investment in the test run. I wonder with the new silicone ones if the diaper issue I dislike so much is eliminated. Thanks for the thoughts!

[ObviousAlter11]

@sdlbredfan

I love this, and vote it for best.answer! Riding is, or should be IMO,a sport rather than a fashion event. Wearing underwear is a normal, and ‘good’ thing, so why worry if someone knows you have some on.

@Mango20

Here’s what VPL says to onlookers: “hey, I’m wearing underwear”. Is that so bad? You should at least give underwear a try and see if it makes a difference. There are types out there that claim not to leave panty lines, but I haven’t really tried them out. I’m okay with people knowing I wear underwear.

My apologies to you both, I’m not being clear. My discomfort lies less in what people think or the fashion of something (I agree that wearing underwear is generally a positive!), and more in where the seams in VPL underwear lie. As I say above to Libby2563, the seams in underwear that lie across your cheeks (as opposed to either inside, like a thong, or below, like shorts) have a tendency to rub where my leg meets my pelvis, creating a bit of a knife effect. This is one rub I have been able to eliminate by choosing underwear that are narrower. However, I will give thought to both of your suggestions, and perhaps trying a longer “short-style”.

[NoSuchPerson]

You might take a look at Duluth Trading Company’s undies.

This one in particular: https://women.duluthtrading.com/store/womens/womens-underwear/94701.aspx?processor=content

WOMEN’S INVISI-SKIVVIES HI-CUT UNDERWEAR

I’ve got some of the Buck Naked briefs and I like them, but I don’t think they would do anything for your particular issue.

[frugalannie]

Reading some of this reminds me of a hot summer day when I rode 7 dressage tests and then had to come home and ride my own horses. I was wearing full seats. When I finally peeled them off, they took some of the skin off in the general area to which you’ve been referring (if I understand you). I think you’re talking about the junction of the inner thigh to the torso. Yes? If so perhaps we should refer to this as the “Obvious Alter” area? :winkgrin:

The strange solution I had to employ when I had this issue was to wear men’s clingy knit boxer briefs until some skin grew back because that dreadful edge on women’s undies dug right in. Not too romantic.

[RatWrangler]

@ObviousAlter11

I haven’t ridden bareback in years, but that’s an interesting thought experiment! I will see if I can fit in a try (one horse is shark finned enough that I think he’d kill anyone in that area, but the other may provide some insight). What should I be looking for?

I will try larger underwear. At the risk of TMI, I normally ride in thongs due to the VPL issue. Just in case that info affects anyone’s recommendations.

The thongs might be the problem… .the few times
i’ve tried them, they were painful just sitting down, never mind riding a horse! My go-to for the past decade or so has been boy shorts – they stay in place, don’t ride up or give wedgies, and I’ve never had a line problem.

[sdlbredfan]

@ObviousAlter11

My apologies to you both, I’m not being clear. My discomfort lies less in what people think or the fashion of something (I agree that wearing underwear is generally a positive!), and more in where the seams in VPL underwear lie. As I say above to Libby2563, the seams in underwear that lie across your cheeks (as opposed to either inside, like a thong, or below, like shorts) have a tendency to rub where my leg meets my pelvis, creating a bit of a knife effect. This is one rub I have been able to eliminate by choosing underwear that are narrower. However, I will give thought to both of your suggestions, and perhaps trying a longer “short-style”.

The trick is to get a big enough size that the leg openings are big enough not to cut into you there. You can also cut small notches into the leg elastic to loosen it. Hint, the sizes on the packages rarely are realistic. Try some slightly bigger than you think you need.
One of the newer things on the market, that I have tried and found to be pretty comfy is the Warner’s ‘blissful benefits’ cotton ‘no muffin top’ with a wide waistband and super soft leg openings. It comes in a hipster and higher style.They do shrink a little, so get one of the size you think you will need, and one larger, is what I would recommend. Walmart has them, and am sure other stores do. Good luck!

Edited to add, I just disccovered that the brand I mentioned is no longer made of cotton, but of a synthetic, stretchy fabric. So, shrinkage is apparently no longer an issue.

[sheltona01]

I have not read the entire thread, but I can chime in as a saddle fitter. Please do talk to your saddle fitter about it. Please do to be embarrassed about it. This is issue is more common than what you think. If we do not know about it, we can not help you. People do not realize how many different seat profiles there are and what we can do as saddle fitter to help the issue.

[chaserider]

@ObviousAlter11

That has absolutely happened to me before - I feel your pain!!! Fortunately, the current saddles cause no bleeding, which is wonderful. There is nothing worse.

Do you find the mini-pad to make any kind of difference? Do you find in the other saddle that you still have some discomfort, or does it entirely go away in the Pessoa?

OP, I had a lesson in the Pessoa today and had no discomfort at all. It’s more of a panti-liner than a pad. I don’t want to add bulk to the problem. I am almost positive the problem is my saddle

[MissyBee]

Hi, I’m new to the board. I’ve had this issue at various times throughout my riding career. For me, it also has something to do with the fabrics I’m wearing: synthetic schooling tights + synthetic undies + 2 hour clinic = this issue. Cotton undies are the key!

[ObviousAlter11]

@frugalannie

Reading some of this reminds me of a hot summer day when I rode 7 dressage tests and then had to come home and ride my own horses. I was wearing full seats. When I finally peeled them off, they took some of the skin off in the general area to which you’ve been referring (if I understand you). I think you’re talking about the junction of the inner thigh to the torso. Yes? If so perhaps we should refer to this as the “Obvious Alter” area? :winkgrin:

The strange solution I had to employ when I had this issue was to wear men’s clingy knit boxer briefs until some skin grew back because that dreadful edge on women’s undies dug right in. Not too romantic.

The junction of the inner thigh to the torso is an issue I’ve had in the past - staying away from seams that sit in that area has been a life-changer for me! My current problem is more…central. Front and center, shall we say. I’m happy for it to be known as the ObviousAlter Area - why do you think I used an alter for this one??

Good to know about the boxer briefs. It seems that’s an alternative to the thongs that I should try! Thank you so much for your tips

[ObviousAlter11]

@RatWrangler

The thongs might be the problem… .the few times
i’ve tried them, they were painful just sitting down, never mind riding a horse! My go-to for the past decade or so has been boy shorts – they stay in place, don’t ride up or give wedgies, and I’ve never had a line problem.

I do wear them in all areas of life, since I find them quite comfortable (I know that’s odd - can’t remember how I got started with that). But the boy shorts really seem to be a common recommendation, so I’m going to explore that for riding!

[ObviousAlter11]

@sdlbredfan

The trick is to get a big enough size that the leg openings are big enough not to cut into you there. You can also cut small notches into the leg elastic to loosen it. Hint, the sizes on the packages rarely are realistic. Try some slightly bigger than you think you need.
One of the newer things on the market, that I have tried and found to be pretty comfy is the Warner’s ‘blissful benefits’ cotton ‘no muffin top’ with a wide waistband and super soft leg openings. It comes in a hipster and higher style.They do shrink a little, so get one of the size you think you will need, and one larger, is what I would recommend. Walmart has them, and am sure other stores do. Good luck!

Edited to add, I just disccovered that the brand I mentioned is no longer made of cotton, but of a synthetic, stretchy fabric. So, shrinkage is apparently no longer an issue.

I think for me it’s a back-and-forth rubbing thing. Underwear that is 100% comfortable in day to day life becomes like a little saw where it rests between my leg and torso. I will consider cutting notches…

Thanks for the specific recommendation! I’ll look into that

[ObviousAlter11]

@sheltona01

I have not read the entire thread, but I can chime in as a saddle fitter. Please do talk to your saddle fitter about it. Please do to be embarrassed about it. This is issue is more common than what you think. If we do not know about it, we can not help you. People do not realize how many different seat profiles there are and what we can do as saddle fitter to help the issue.

Thank you I appreciate the insight!

[ObviousAlter11]

@chaserider

OP, I had a lesson in the Pessoa today and had no discomfort at all. It’s more of a panti-liner than a pad. I don’t want to add bulk to the problem. I am almost positive the problem is my saddle

Totally share your concerns about bulk. Good tip! I’m glad you have a solution, even if it requires a saddle replacement

[ObviousAlter11]

@MissyBee

Hi, I’m new to the board. I’ve had this issue at various times throughout my riding career. For me, it also has something to do with the fabrics I’m wearing: synthetic schooling tights + synthetic undies + 2 hour clinic = this issue. Cotton undies are the key!

Welcome to COTH! I am definitely riding entirely in synthetics, so I will look into alternatives. Thank you so much for chiming in

[walkers60]

Always cotton undies ,also there is a cream called SARNO (OTC) the ingredient is found in prescription skin creams, it works like magic. Put it on before you ride on all external areas where you have problems. Have you worked with a Dermatologist because there is a name for whats happening to you, very common but sometimes it is a sign of another disorder so you should get it checked out. Also no cortisone creams as they thin the skin and if you can ride bare butt in cotton breeches you may not have any problems. Just makes sure its pure cotton and not treated with teflon.
Vermont Country Store is one of the few places that sells real cotton undies and other items.
FYI SARNO works quickly for any burning and/or itching skin pain. Give it time to dry and you’ll forget you had a itch.

[ObviousAlter11]

Alright folks. I haven’t been ignoring your helpful suggestions, but rather have been off running experiments. I started off with the cheap options, with the intention of moving up in price bracket as need be (last resort being saddle shopping - I might hate that more than horse shopping, and it can be nearly as expensive!) The results so far:

THINGS THAT DO NOT WORK:

1. Underwear with a double-layered piece at the front. You know how some underwear has a second layer of fabric at the crotch (for reasons I still don’t understand)? Yeah, that horizontal line that forms where the second layer ends, about halfway up your pubic bone, creates some real issues for me. Regardless of type of underwear: stay away from the double layer!

2. Anti-Monkey Butt Powder. This one I had high hopes for. However, as the area in which I have a problem is an area that is never meant to be totally dry, it’s not the right product. I did apply enough to ensure that it was entirely “friction free” following application, and make sure there was no excess powder or clumping going on, but as natural processes worked over the course of the ride, “friction free” became “extra friction” as just enough moisture was created to override the product, but not enough to sufficiently lubricate the area. NOT a good look. I could see this product being a good one for people who have issues with seams causing rubs at the top of your legs, as I think for small amounts of sweat where skin gets a little sticky it could be a great problem solver. But bear in mind it’s basically fancy baby powder - it gets everywhere in just the same way, and it’s not magic - consistent or excessive moisture will push the product past its limits and can (and did) make the problem worse.

THINGS THAT HAVE WORKED:

1. Riding without underwear. This required some bravery. I really did not believe this would go well for me, plus I hate walking around in anything besides sweats/pajamas without undies - much less doing it at a barn! However, it was by far the cheapest suggestion here, so I gave it a try. Well. It turns out when the bits have some freedom to get out of the way (aided by part 2 of this answer), things go better. And I really didn’t mind the feel when I was actually in the saddle at all, I just didn’t love it for walking around the barn. I think I’ll continue to experiment with undergarments, but it’s a nice nuclear option if one is needed, and does not require the sale of my saddle.

2. Bag Balm. Hear me out, I KNOW this is weird. Multiple people here suggested chamois butter, or various lubricants, and suggested that cyclists may have the greatest level of knowledge here (and learning my lessons from the Anti-Monkey-Butt debacle, I determined that adding more lubrication, as opposed to trying to dry the area to create a friction-free situation, might be a better option). In my quest to find chamois butter, or something similar, I came across a few cycling articles that suggested Bag Balm as an alternative. The antiseptic properties can’t hurt, it helps to aid in repairing Anti-Monkey-Butt-induced damage, and it should act as a lubricant to minimize chafing without melting and getting all over everything, like Vaseline. It worked for me. I didn’t find it created a noticeable difference to the feel down there when I was living my life around the barn, but in the saddle, combined with lack of underwear, it just kept everything smoothly moving out of the way.

In short: I think I can keep my saddle. I’m not sure I’ve found the perfect combination yet, but I think I’m on the right track. If the pain was at a 10 prior to adjustments, Anti-Monkey Butt took it to an 18 whereas no underwear + Bag Balm took it to a 2. I did notice quite a few moments throughout my ride where I would expect a pinch coming and flinch away from the saddle, only for nothing to happen. I think this issue was affecting my riding more than I thought, so thank you to all of you for helping me get on the right track! I’ll update again if more progress is made.

[frugalannie]

Good news. I’d still suggest a chat with your saddle fitter. Even a “2” isn’t ideal albeit much better.