Fence Fighting?

[meupatdoes]

So, I live in a house surrounded on two sides by neighbors with dog-aggressive fencefighters. These neighbors take absolutely no steps to curtail the behavior. On the one side the neighbor says, “Oh, they’re going to bark anyway,” and on the other side the neighbor DELIBERATELY lets his charging, snarling monsters out when mine are out because he enjoys the show.

So, obviously I can not get the neighbors to exercise any discretion or attempts at training so it is all on me. I for one have HAD IT that I can not let my dogs out in the yard for five minutes without one of them letting theirs out and causing a gigantic melee, and then just sitting back and not doing anything about it. Mine are fine and quiet in the yard and will play nicely without barking but when they are being charged at from the other side of the fence all bets are off.
Does anyone have any techniques that have worked with their dogs? The neighbors will be of no help so I need to teach mine to ignore NO MATTER WHAT. I am about to go out there with a longe whip and then a “Sugar cookies!” routine but if anyone has any other ideas I am all ears.

Can I hot tape just three sides? I suppose I could attach little holders to the existing fence. Are there solar chargers that work? I am trying not to spend hundreds of dollars though so if someone has training ideas that work I am happy to hear them. However it might actually be worth a couple hundred bucks to see those other A-hole dogs poke their noses through and hit my hot tape. I will put a charge on that thing to light up a buffalo.

I don’t know.
COTH, give me some ideas!

[GoForAGallop]

I think a solid fence is a fantastic idea.

You don’t have to go for the stockade panels, you can definitely get away with something cheaper. Rolls of bamboo screening can be found for cheap online. You could go with landscaping fabric as well, it can be found in 4’ wide rolls, and then plant flowers in front to ease the eyesore. Natural screens of flowers/shrubs don’t seem like they’d work, your dogs will just trample them.

The visible barrier might not stop the barking, necessarily, but it will stop the fighting. And how creepy to have your neighbor watching you! That alone would inspire me to drop the $$$$ on a nice, solid, 8’ high stockade fence!

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=GoForAGallop;6408163]
I think a solid fence is a fantastic idea.

You don’t have to go for the stockade panels, you can definitely get away with something cheaper. Rolls of bamboo screening can be found for cheap online. You could go with landscaping fabric as well, it can be found in 4’ wide rolls, and then plant flowers in front to ease the eyesore. Natural screens of flowers/shrubs don’t seem like they’d work, your dogs will just trample them.

The visible barrier might not stop the barking, necessarily, but it will stop the fighting. And how creepy to have your neighbor watching you! That alone would inspire me to drop the $$$$ on a nice, solid, 8’ high stockade fence![/QUOTE]

Actually, stopping the noise is the main issue.

The neighbors on the other side of the shitty neighbor who just lets his out for the party are getting really PO’ed at the noise. They are mainly annoyed at my neighbor’s dogs, because they bark from inside the house EXTENSIVELY (mine do not) but still, when all holy hell breaks loose the second I try to let mine out for five minutes it has the other neighbor threatening to call the police.

I can not pull in my driveway without the neighbor’s dogs going ballistic inside their house. Then I can’t let mine out because the second I do my neighbor will let his out to deliberately piss off the other neighbor.

So spending thousands of dollars on a stockade fence that isn’t going to stop the noise does not really address the issue.

And, I know I sound like a biased dog mom, but mine are really not the aggressors. Even if the neighbor’s dogs are barking from inside their house, mine will go around in their yard quietly and mind their own business. It is only when other dogs charge the fence snarling (because someone has deliberately let them out :mad::mad:) that they react.

I let my guys out a couple times a day for 5-10 minutes, and stand there with them. Sometimes I sit and read a book if we are having a peaceful morning. Usually we are driven back in to the house by one of the other neighbors letting their dogs out and starting this nonsense (the other neighbors never come out with their dogs). If the other dogs aren’t out mine can play nicely (with me out there with them) for 20-30 minutes with nary a peep.

So what I need is a training and/or fencing technique that addresses both the behavior and the noise. I know I can’t control the neighbors’ dogs but I want MINE quiet NO MATTER WHAT. I am out there with them anyway so if there is a diverting training behavior I can be doing to keep my dogs’ attention on me when the other dogs come out, I’m all ears.

[Dramapony_misty]

A thick high soild fence MAY help stop the harassment as the neighbor’s helions won’t be able to see your dogs (thus stoping the fence charging). It would have to be an absolutely solid fence though, so they can’t see into your yard through cracks.

[Simkie]

I put in invisible fence to stop fence fighting. Keeping the dog away from the fence now means that she just ignores the crazy neighbor dog. A tall hedge + the invisible fence also stopped the interest in the dogs who walk along the path that runs behind my house.

Since you go out with your dogs, you may also be able to just take them out on longe lines and send them ass over teakettle when they charge the fence. Several lessons may get the point across, depending on how tractable your dogs are to that sort of training.

[Snowflake]

And this is why I love my little house out in the country with no neighbors on either side…

You could try a noise deterrant for the stupid neighbor dogs. Air horn, penny in a can, etc. Some lemon juice and hot sauce in an oil mister might also help. Spray it in the face of the aggressive dogs and they’ll learn to stay away.

Other than moving, I don’t know of a surefire way to stop this mess.

[TheRedFox]

We have fence fighters and so do the neighbors which makes for a big mess. A few years ago we put a hotwire around the bottom of the fence to keep ours from digging out. It has worked wonders to keep both parties from going nuts at the fence. The neighbors dogs dont come within ten feet of our fence and our dogs dont go within five.

[meupatdoes]

OK, so it seems like hot wire will be an effective solution.
Anyone have any ideas for how to put insulators on chain link?

Also, I would still love, love LOVE to hear training alternatives.
I can do the hotwire, but my small yard has a garage in it, and around the garage there is only about three feet of space to the fence. One of the primary exercises my dogs do is “Indy 500 Around The Garage”, where they RIP around the garage (not barking! Just running!), so if I have them so scared of the fence they won’t go within three feet of it, it will limit them to just the very small area in front of the garage. Indy500 is amazing because it basically longes the dogs. They are wiped after 5 minutes.

Do you all think it would work if I only turned on the hot tape when fence fighting began? As I said, I am out there anyway so I could theoretically just reach over and silently turn on the fence, causing a “!!!” from everyone, and then call them to me for treats and pets and redirected relaxing behavior like sitting or lying down? I would like to time the ZAP! to the fence fighting, not just the fence in general.

Yes? Good plan?
No, you’re an idiot, that’ll never work?

Here’s something else that’ll work way better and you can just train them without spending money on hotwire or privacy fence?

[threedogpack]

I remember a number of years ago, friend moved to a house with her 2 boxers and fence fighting happened to her. I’m at work right now, but she made the neighbor dogs screaming at the fence mean something other than screaming back. I’ll try to look up and see if I can find it when I get home. If I remember correctly, it was a self control excercise and the training held well for her.

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=threedogpack;6408980]
I remember a number of years ago, friend moved to a house with her 2 boxers and fence fighting happened to her. I’m at work right now, but she made the neighbor dogs screaming at the fence mean something other than screaming back. I’ll try to look up and see if I can find it when I get home. If I remember correctly, it was a self control excercise and the training held well for her.[/QUOTE]

Thanks!
I would really appreciate it!

[Emryss]

I made a short setback (about 2 feet) from my fence with a picket fence. I have a solid 6-foot wooden fence surrounding my yard, but the neighbors had pits that would just go nuts when I let my dogs out. They were digging and tearing at the fence, and it was bad enough that I had to put down a serious barrier on the ground (chicken wire, buried about a foot, secured to the fence, and out those 2 feet into my yard) to prevent the neighbor dogs from digging under the fence to get at my dogs. A friend of mine lost three of her Cavaliers to just such a situation and I did not want to be in her shoes, at all.

The picket fence kept my dogs far enough back that they were no longer an interesting trigger. I have my herb and vegetable garden there now, and it looks pretty nice.

The neighbors and their rotten dogs have since moved out, but I have kept the picket setback anyway to keep my garden safe from male-dog decoration.

[My2cents]

How about one of these?http://www.amazon.com/PetSafe-Outdoor-Ultrasonic-Bark-Deterrent/dp/B000UZNLGA
The dogs will be silenced and humanely disciplined at the same time. The neighbor won’t have a clue.

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=My2cents;6409073]
How about one of these?http://www.amazon.com/PetSafe-Outdoor-Ultrasonic-Bark-Deterrent/dp/B000UZNLGA
The dogs will be silenced and humanely disciplined at the same time. The neighbor won’t have a clue.[/QUOTE]

If only one dog were involved I would like that idea, but I don’t want to correct the dogs that AREN’T barking just because one persistent offender keeps it up.

However I have considered bark collars with both a sound and vocal cord set off, but that gets pricey since I have multiple dogs, and foster frequently as well.

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=meupatdoes;6408996]
Thanks!
I would really appreciate it![/QUOTE]

I went back through all the messages I had from 2000 to now and could not find it, so I don’t know if I kept it.

so, that said, I’d do sugar cookies in the house.

I’d set up a behavior chain that went like this

neighbor dog barks>your dog responds>you go get your dog without calling him/her>once in the house ask for a sit and hand out free cookies. A dog who catches on quickly will back that up to neighbor dog barks>run to mom for cookies. Which will abort the other dog as well. It’s not a quick fix, but it is probably a permanent one.

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=threedogpack;6415627]
I went back through all the messages I had from 2000 to now and could not find it, so I don’t know if I kept it.

so, that said, I’d do sugar cookies in the house.

I’d set up a behavior chain that went like this

neighbor dog barks>your dog responds>you go get your dog without calling him/her>once in the house ask for a sit and hand out free cookies. A dog who catches on quickly will back that up to neighbor dog barks>run to mom for cookies. Which will abort the other dog as well. It’s not a quick fix, but it is probably a permanent one.[/QUOTE]

Thanks!

I have been doing pretty much this (except I have been calling them, which I will stop doing since if I evaluate honestly they usually ‘practice’ ignoring me 4 or 5 times before they finally come back) and it is already starting to show improvement.

Last night I had my guys out individually on a longe line. If they started to get too focused on the neighbors I would get them headed towards me with the longe line and then “cookies, cookies!”

Even the A-hole neighbor looked over and said, “Wow, that seems to be working remarkably well,” and then lo and behold he was willing to start practicing the same with his dogs from his side of the fence. So there we were on opposite sides of the fence calling our dogs over and feeding them treats.

Thank you so much for going back and looking through your emails for me (and the pooches). I will definitely stop calling them and it is also nice to get some reassurance that, somewhere at the end of the tunnel, this plan may even work!

[threedogpack]

@meupatdoes;6416636

Thanks!

I have been doing pretty much this (except I have been calling them, which I will stop doing since if I evaluate honestly they usually ‘practice’ ignoring me 4 or 5 times before they finally come back) and it is already starting to show improvement.

I wouldn’t call them if they choose to ignore you. As you pointed out, they are practicing discrimination (do I? don’t I? come when called)

Last night I had my guys out individually on a longe line. If they started to get too focused on the neighbors I would get them headed towards me with the longe line and then “cookies, cookies!”

THIS is working and so I’d keep doing this. I suggested in the house because most neighbors would not have seen what was happening and thought to do it with their own dog(s). If the other Neighbor Dog (ND) is also being worked, by golly I’d take advantage of that! Distraction training at it’s best and you can start to use your recall word while the dog is on his way to you.

Even the A-hole neighbor looked over and said, “Wow, that seems to be working remarkably well,” and then lo and behold he was willing to start practicing the same with his dogs from his side of the fence. So there we were on opposite sides of the fence calling our dogs over and feeding them treats.

Once the dogs are pretty good at coming when called, I would change it up a bit, and either send the dog back (fence fighting is annoying for people but fun for dogs) then recall, lather rinse repeat. What you are going to find is that after 3 or 4 times…your dog won’t leave. It will happen even faster if the neighbor is doing his part at the same time. When the dog is choosing to stay with you, move 2 or 3 steps closer to the fence, repeat. You might even get a bit of heeling when you start teaching this. Then once the ND is doing really well, you both might practice walking the fence line with your dogs.

Thank you so much for going back and looking through your emails for me (and the pooches).

very very welcome.

I will definitely stop calling them and it is also nice to get some reassurance that, somewhere at the end of the tunnel, this plan may even work!

as I mentioned above, if calling them is working…keep doing it. Most dogs simply cannot do that in the face of such a huge and enticing distraction, yours seem to be able to plug their brains in.

[threedogpack]

also, one more thing.

if your dogs will play tug or chase with you, begin to incorporate that along with the food rewards. It’s easy for a dog to keep one ear or eye on the ND, while gulping down a treat, but they are generally totally focused or not focused at all when playing with you. I choose tug or chase, because tossing a ball leaves too many opportunities to chase the ball and then on the way back to veer off to the ND.

For whatever reason, playing tug and/or chase games is really stimulating for many dogs and it is often a bigger pull than food (probably because most dogs in American are not truly hungry).

Agility folks learned the value of play long ago and will use that as a secondary reinforcer.

[meupatdoes]

I am super excited to report that one of the neighbor’s dogs was out barking at the fence this morning, and after an initial row that required bringing the most reactive dog in the house (cookies!, cookies!) the other four were able to hang out in the yard with me getting treats while the ND barked at the fence wondering why everyone was ignoring him.

There is still a ways to go before we can ignore all three dogs at once coming out of each neighbor’s house on both sides (3 each for a total of 6), but we are making steps to progress.

I have not introduced the “tug of war” game yet, mainly because I haven’t gotten to PetCo yet for a suitable toy. But that is next on the list!

Also the most reactive dog has three adoption applications in for her already so after the home visits we might get to solve her problem the easy way.

[threedogpack]

@meupatdoes;6419800

I am super excited to report that one of the neighbor’s dogs was out barking at the fence this morning, and after an initial row that required bringing the most reactive dog in the house (cookies!, cookies!) the other four were able to hang out in the yard with me getting treats while the ND barked at the fence wondering why everyone was ignoring him.

WHOOO HOOO! (yes, I am shouting), way to go meupatdoes! Out freaking standing. And look at how fast this happened! Good job!

[threedogpack]

edit to change my last series of suggestions.

when I say “chase”, I mean the dog chases YOU while you from from him/her.