:lol: Loved this story. Why I love volunteering - you have to show up to see what’s going to happen!
There’s a professional controller who uses a magnetic board to track the course progresses. :encouragement:
I’ve always meant to respond to this. Using a watch or phone takes more concentration and if you’re in a situation where you have to react quickly looking down to open a timepiece, and possibly in bright sunlight, and to study the time - minutes and seconds, and remember those then look up and step out to stop the horse and rider it’s not easy. Too much is going to go on before you have a chance to write that time down! Especially if it is an undesignated hold. It is easier to have the stopwatch on your neck and click it WHILE you are stepping out. With an emergency hold there is no preparation time, sometimes it’s your judgment, as it was mine in the OP, the controller is caught up in the rider fall protocols, the horse stuck in a fence scenario where the fence has to be taken apart and reconstructed, etc. After 4 refusals by 1st rider that following horse with 2 minutes between was up on me BOOM. My first reaction was to stop them before that horse got presented to my fence!
When I mentioned the extra added minute to the TD, she lightly admonished me that it couldn’t have taken that long to start a time, but it did! I had to stop them first then look down, open my phone and find the stopwatch function. and I can’t SEE the phone face in the sun. So I bought my own timepiece. :encouragement:
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do other ventures out there have ASSIGNED jumps? We didn’t this weekend and there was confusion over who had what jump.
One year you could sign up for a particular jump at our local event. Everyone ask for the water of course. I asked for jump 1 and my friend asked for jump 2 which was close enough to each other we could chat in between. And I like jump one because it’s where many had trouble getting going. The day of the show, they were like oh so and so decided they wanted jump 1 and I refused to give it up. It was visible to all signing up what had been spoken for so I was not flexible in making changes the day of. Sounds bitchy but why sign up for a certain jump when that’s not going to be honored.
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I’ve always seen jumps assigned in advance by whomever is coordinating volunteers. The coordinator is familiar enough with most of the volunteers to know who can handle the trickiest jumps and stay cool in stressful situations. Newbies get more straightforward jumps and everyone, new and old gets a good orientation to get caught up with rule changes as well as meet their resources: TD and Area Stewards as well as Ground Jury President if there is one.
Now there are those volunteers who only want to be dressage scribes, but that’s a different matter ;).
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I have a quick XC question, and re-reading the rules, I still don’t understand how someone at one of my events scored an 80 on XC and was not eliminated. I thought after 3 refusals you were out? So how did this rider get 4, 20 stop/run-out penalties and avoid the E?
- FAULTS AT OBSTACLES: a. Disobediences 1. First refusal, run-out or circle 20 penalties 2. Second refusal, run-out or circle at the same obstacle 40 penalties 3. Third refusal, run-out or circle at the same obstacle Elimination 4. Third penalized disobedience on the entire course at Preliminary, Intermediate or Advanced Elimination 5.[B] Fourth penalized disobedience on the entire course at Beginner Novice, Novice, Training or Modified Elimination.
Then there’s the 65 for a fall landing on feet at the lower levels but that too would not total an even 80[/B]
b. Falls 1. First fall of competitor in which the competitor lands on his/her feet and remains standing (Beginner Novice and Novice) 65 Penalties
Unless there was an even 5 pts for time faults? did you see that? A fall and remount would take up a big chunk of extra time.
oops math still doesn’t add up does it :no: 65+5=70 (15 penalties for time?); 20x4 = E
Wait that was YOU in control? There are a lot of Ann(e)s in the area. You were fabulous!
This was the Groton House Fall Classic… elementary and beginner novice. We had a nice field for BN, but not as many for Elementary. I had a very straightforward, late in the course fence for each group; in fact I had no refusals at all. The Fall Classic tends to be less scary than the Spring Classic, because it’s late in the season and most horses have been out competing a few times over the summer. The riders were also better, the horses more confident, etc.
There were a fair number of horses that had trouble on the first fence or two, but once that was over, they were fine.
The only thing I had to do was stop a rider who’d continued on course after her 4th refusal. Mine was the third fence after her elimination, but she was booking it. And of course her mom or trainer showed up to take photos. I had to jump up and wave my arms and shout at her, ugh. She did stop, but she wasn’t happy about it.
(Side note: I’d ridden my mare up the dirt road from the river at Groton House the day before while the fences were being set up, and she was most displeased by the resulting changes to an environment that has become familiar to her. She got very looky and a little spooky but I just kept her going. She was not having the best day. That ride ended with having to cross the river while there were 30+ Canada geese swimming around and honking at each other. She was … a bit quick getting through there.)
2 refusals at same fence (20+40)= 60 followed/preceded by a single stop at another fence (20)----if at the lower levels.
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You can get 60 through refusals without an E, as shown in an above post.
It’s easy to accumulate lots of time faults to add to any amount of jumping penalties, since each refusal means some mucking around getting a new approach. Some riders may pause to catch their breath before attempting the jump again. And the rider may slow down after that much trouble.
There is an occasional rider who is just really slow on course and will accumulate a LOT of time penalties, whatever their reason. I think taking an extra 2 1/2 minutes over optimum would add up to 80 time penalties - is my math good on that? Would practically have to trot the course, I think. But it’s possible, and that won’t be nearly enough time to get someone eliminated. 
EV141 Cross-Country Scoring
- FAULTS AT OBSTACLES:
Disobediences -
First refusal, run-out or circle = 20 penalties
Second refusal, run-out or circle at the same obstacle = 40 penalties
Third refusal, run-out or circle at the same obstacle = Elimination
Third penalized disobedience on the entire course at Preliminary, Intermediate or Advanced = Elimination
Fourth penalized disobedience on the entire course at Beginner Novice, Novice, Training or Modified = Elimination.
So, they were at Modified or below and had a single refusal at one fence (20) plus two refusals at another fence (20 for the first; 40 for the second) for a total of 3 refusals. Total jumping penalties = 20 + 20 + 40 = 80.
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I’ve always seen jumps assigned in advance by whomever is coordinating volunteers. The coordinator is familiar enough with most of the volunteers to know who can handle the trickiest jumps and stay cool in stressful situations. Newbies get more straightforward jumps and everyone, new and old gets a good orientation to get caught up with rule changes as well as meet their resources: TD and Area Stewards as well as Ground Jury President if there is one.
Now there are those volunteers who only want to be dressage scribes, but that’s a different matter ;).
And Quiet Ann, you were terrific! Not easy to flag a disappointed rider down, and you made it seem like something you’ve done before. Your responses on the air were prompt and clear. Very much appreciated by this rookie! See you at the spring classic!
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Well, I Jump judged this weekend. I hadn’t done it for 4 years, and maybe 30 years before that. Both times, we weren’t assigned a jump. I want to help, and I don’t ride anymore, but I swear, if they do not assign jumps next year, I will say no thanks
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How does that even work, if they don’t assign a jump? Do people just fight over them?
Thank you for asking what I was thinking.
Not even the morning of when they give you all your stuff is a jump assigned? They just send you out there in a free-for-all first come first served basis?
That is weird and seems like it adds a ton of time to the morning set-up trying to make sure there is someone at every jump.
Aaahhh…thanks for the explanation Gardenhorse!
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Well, yes it was a mess. This happened 4 years ago too. The course builder, a TERRIFIC guy, drove us out around the course, and people just jumped off at random spots near a jump. When it came to novice, I was near a jump marked as novice, but when we did the soundcheck, someone else called out the number of a jump where I thought I was sitting. After he called out rider # is clear over that fence, I realized the numbered jump where I was sitting wasn’t flagged. And to add to the fun, it was POURING rain. I am trying not to be specific where it was, as I do not want to cause an incident. The organizer is …prickly
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@Larksmom is this at a recognized event?
I’ve been taught that a copy of the fence assignments goes to both scoring and control - along with the cell phone #s in case they need to speak with the fence individual. I’ve received those calls when I’ve been sitting at a fence - if your score sheet does not match control’s, if you did an emergency hold, rider/horse fall that needs a private call vs radio transmissions… and these issues happen at the unrecognized level especially! Far more activity with less experienced competitors.
How do they deal with designated hold fences - whether recognized HT or not, that is going to be needed. And not everyone is comfortable or educated to do those. Plus they’re given a stopwatch, a flag and marker cones. And not everyone has the experience for some of the fences with questions.
You can anonymously submit an event evaluation. And should,
Yes, it was recognized. I signed all my sheets and put my phone # on all of them. There were only a few problems, and I checked with the TD. She saved me from going back and causing mayhem. They just didn’t say ‘You go here and you go there’. The TD did assign the first and last fences as they had to have stopwatches. I never got an order of go for any division. I do want to fill out an evaluation but I don’t quite know where to go to do so.
Listen, my horse has been dead for over 10 years. I have almost no contact with anyone anymore, and truthfully, it was this thread that encouraged me to go volunteer. I was thrilled to do it!! There is nothing like the smell of horses in the morning! But this has left me with a bad taste in my mouth.
One good note, some young girl, walked by and said, 'thank you for volunteering!
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