sascha, I often agree with your posts, but in this instance, I feel like you are digging in a little hard. Let it go and let’s all move on. Cheers.
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You say we need to discriminate between natural gaits and those created thru training…. Why? The only reason I can think of is that you disagree with the current idea of “good gaits”. Isn’t the goal to have better gaits? Be more supple and straight etc etc? If a horse starts off as a “natural” 7 .5 mover, what is the problem with that? And of course more is wrong with that little QH. I just used the example at hand comparing the 7.5 natural mover who could be trained to the 8.5 level, to the QH who will never be better than maybe a 6.5 no matter the training.
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Agree - although as I posted on the thread about the European Dressage Championships, Weihegold is a stellar example of a young horse champion who made it to the top echelons of world class competition - and produced multiple offspring by embryo transfer along the way (starting with three offspring conceived when she was just a 3 y/o).
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According to FEI Article 401, this is the objective of dressage.
ARTICLE 401 OBJECT AND GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF DRESSAGE
- The object of Dressage is the development of the Horse into a happy Athlete through harmonious education. As a result, it makes the Horse calm, supple, loose and flexible, but also confident, attentive and keen, thus achieving perfect understanding with the Athlete.
These qualities are demonstrated by:
• The freedom and regularity of the paces.
• The harmony, lightness and ease of the movements.
• The lightness of the forehand and the engagement of the hindquarters, originating from a lively impulsion.
• The acceptance of the bit, with submissiveness/throughness (Durchlässigkeit) without any tension or resistance. - The Horse thus gives the impression of doing, of its own accord, what is required. Confident and attentive, submitting generously to the control of the Athlete, remaining absolutely straight in any movement on a straight line and bending accordingly when moving on curved lines.
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So true! Not saying the young horse winners can’t make it by any means. But I’m sure as you know, that is a popular view amongst many - if the young horse winners are built for GP.
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You may want to scroll up and read the question @Knights_Mom asked regarding breeding direction which is what I was responding to.
That feeling when someone refers to something you wrote but for the life of you you can’t remember anything LOL so you have to go look!
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I’ll give you impulsion but it’s mostly IME, due to different training, however you are dead wrong about lateral ability. Cutting horses are extreme examples of lateral ability, their lesser cousins may not be as talented, but they still can move laterally. They do not typically have the lateral reach of a purpose bred warmblood but that’s a conformation thing.
This one looks pretty darn supple to me.
Training is the biggest difference IMO
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He is demonstrating the ultimate in collection in the lope with that sliding stop. But no lateral suppleness required. I think she was referring to bend. A short-coupled QH, and likely downhill to some degree, has more trouble bending. As far as reaching laterally, yes QH can do side passes which require a lot of crossing over as do half passes.
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IMO, that sliding stop isn’t the ultimate in collection. He’s sliding because his hind end is literally slipping out from underneath him. There’s no self carriage, and the only time he can change his body position is when the slide comes to a stop from lack of momentum. At that point the horse must transfer his balance/weight to the forehand, and lift up his hindquarters to get his back legs straightened out underneath him so he can stand on all fours. He has no choice but to wait for the slide to end before he can stand up and settle, and then move forward, or spin.
The ultimate in collection (IMO) is the piaffe when done correctly. The horse’s body is balanced underneath him in self carriage at all times, allowing him to go up (levade), sideways (piaffe pirouette) or forward.
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Apologies for the pendantics, but the run down preceding a sliding stop is not a lope by a long stretch!
QHs certainly can bend laterally as well as longitudinally; check out a trail class where as you note there are frequently side passes, figure 8’s on the order of 10m and my personal favorite, working gates (as in a gap in a fence), etc. I can work a gate on my WBs, but it’s nowhere near as easy as it was on my QHs of yesteryear!
Anyway, I try to stay away from broad generalizations because there’s always some individual that breaks it! I agree that we are unlikely to see a QH on any Olympic dressage team and we are unlikely to see a WB on any reining team if it ever becomes an FEI discipline again.
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If you’re talking momentary collection, the ultimate is the rollback.
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I always thought the ultimate collection was the levade? Similarly controlled, with the ability to go sideways/forward/stay on the spot at a moments notice. (Not being argumentative, just surprised/curious.)
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Actually, the ultimate in collection is the levade - where the horse sits to such a degree that the front end comes off the ground. But you are right, of course - it’s piaffe. I wasn’t interested in picking apart western reining.
ETA: Feathered_Feet got there before me. 
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No apologies needed - you are right. They gallop into the slide. My bad.
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Good point about the levade. Will give that some thought !
