Final Decision on Which Stallion for Riverman daughter- Input Appreciated

[shanglebranch]

We just purchased a 2000 Riverman daughter (out of Flora I - a Carolus I daughter that is out of a Coriolan daughter) and are trying to make our final decision on the stallion ASAP. This mare is by all accounts very easy going herself. She is a big girl (17hands or so), tons of bone, really nicely put together and a very good mover. She is a hair long in the back with an attractive - but large - head. We are breeding for hunters ideally with a priority on athleticism and, of course, temperament. We are looking first and foremost to replace this mare, so while we would love something competitive in the showring as well, we want a cross that we would like to have continue our program.

She hasn’t had a foal in four years, so combined with her age we need cooled (not frozen) options.

As of now we are focusing on Cabardino, Balta’Czar, Checkmate and Bliss MF. And and all feedback on these guys (especially if you have seen a similar cross) is appreciated. We are not new to showing and in a previous life bred Arabians, so this is our first step in the adventures of warmblood/hunter breeding.

Just checking to see if any of you experienced breeders have advice for us! Thanks!

[halt]

I really don’t see how you could go wrong with Balta’Czar for a Riverman mare, personally. Checkmate would be a close second.

[Foxtrot_s]

I’ve seen some Cabardinos and with his Cor de la Bryere he seems quite regularly to throw horses with incredible form over fence with knees up to their eyeballs. I did not choose him for my mare because she has Cor in her lines and I thought it might be too much of a good thing at the time.

[luckylion]

I am breeding my Grandom/Fuerst Gotthard mare to Apiro this year on the recommendation of a friend who knows a lot more about breeding than I do, but I have another friend who has some very nice Cabardino babies. One currently showing Green, I believe. He was on my short list, as was MF Bliss. I really love him. Amazing was a finalist. My trainer bred to him last year, but unfortunately lost the mare in a freak pasture accident. I was really looking forward to seeing that foal. I really like Sir Caletto, but have only seen a couple of his babies that have his jump, but good gosh when they do! My girl is grey and her dam, that I owned for 23 years, was grey, so Sir Caletto being grey worked against him. I know I still have a 50% chance of getting a grey, but I didn’t want to increase it to 75%. I’m HOPING for a colored horse after 24 years of greys.

[Daventry]

Which Riverman are you talking about? The Holsteiner by Redfort that stands at Hilltop or the KWPN stallion by Kenwood that stands at Iron Spring Farm? I assume it must be the Redford stallion based on the mare’s age.

Riverman babies have gained a reputation for being difficult or pro rides. It is nice to hear that your mare is easy going…but do you have any history in regards to her riding career or what she was like under saddle? We bred to Riverman back in the 90’s, knowing full well what his reputation was, but bred him to the easiest going hunter mare ever and ended up with a lovely amateur friendly hunter. But, because the potential for that temperament is in there, I would make sure to pick an amateur friendly stallion with an easy going temperament.

[shanglebranch]

Daventry, it is Hilltop’s Riverman. While I haven’t been familiar with this mare for long, by all accounts she is as easy-going under saddle as she is on the ground. She was 3rd at the USDF Cosequin Finals as a 3yo but has only been pleasure ridden and bred since. But even taking that into consideration, we are still aiming for a stallion that tends to produce amateur-friendly horses. We have heard good things about most of the guys on the short list but appreciate any first hand input provided!

[elizabeth_Callahan]

Had a lovely Bliss filly out of a A Fine Romance Riverman daughter,. Had 2cd highest jumping score in the US at the FEH Championships. Lovely mover, spectacular jumper, great temperamant

[Foxtrot_s]

I’ll bet she was lovely, Elizabeth.

Regarding Riverman. He has bred a lot of top foals in all categories. I believe the Riverman offspring are bold yet sensitive and have to be brought along with that in mind. Mine (by RA) is the sweetest and lightest horse, goes with a rubber bit, the slightest hip movement and she responds. Never have to be tough on her, ever.

There are several Riverman’s up here (one person has four, another has two) and are owned, being raised by, and competed on by our top riders. They have the trademark looks, too.

[ElementFarm]

I have a 2001 Riverman mare (out of a Consul dam). My mare is different from yours, phenotypically, being quite a bit smaller and maybe more refined. She was my AO horse back in the day and is my profile picture.

She had a 2016 colt by Bliss MF. I’m extremely happy with him, and he was named a stallion prospect at his AHS inspection (though I bred for a hunter for myself, and I’m not interested in owning a stallion).
The colt is smaller than I expected (Bliss didn’t seem to add height) but very, very correct. He’s a lovely mover and so far his canter looks better than his dam’s. He’s got a pocket-pony personality, and so far is easier to work and less spooky than his mom was as a young horse (though I didn’t meet her until she was 5yo). The colt is just lovely overall and looks like he’ll make a great smaller AO hunter in the future (I’m short, so I like the ~15.3hh ones). I don’t think Bliss takes away height as his 2016 filly from a different mare is huge. The colt is a great mover, and so far flatter in the trot and more uphill in the canter than his dam is. I figure with the mare’s jump and the Bliss/Balou du Rouet lines, this boy should JUMP.

I also love Checkmate and am seriously considering him for this mare this spring. From talking to the SO, he’s clearly stamping his foals, and she mentioned he was a good choice for heavier mares for this reason. She also said he’s got a great temperament, something his offspring seem to be inheriting.

Based on my personal experience with Bliss, and what I’ve learned about Checkmate, I think you can’t go wrong with either of those stallions for your mare.

here’s the Bliss MF X Riverman colt at his inspection. [ATTACH=JSON]{“alt”:“Click image for larger version Name: Blue at 7 mos.jpg Views: 1 Size: 24.1 KB ID: 10073437”,“data-align”:“none”,“data-attachmentid”:“10073437”,“data-size”:“full”}[/ATTACH]

Here he he is at two yo

[Fred]

[quote=“el![](zabeth Callahan,post:7,topic:445044”]

Had a lovely Bliss filly out of a A Fine Romance Riverman daughter,. Had 2cd highest jumping score in the US at the FEH Championships. Lovely mover, spectacular jumper, great temperamant

[/quote]

When A Fine Romance was standing as a Guest Stallion at Hilltop, Susanne Hassler specifically recommended him for Riverman mares, for a number of reasons.
There is a very nice young AFR son standing in Ontario, named Darwin, who is just starting his stallion career. He is out of an Emilion mare.
I am not connected with him in any way other than having bred and owned his sire, but he looks to be a lovely horse, a very good mover, with a great temperament. His owner, Debra Ottier, is a reproduction professional, and I understand the semen is excellent.
He may be too big a horse for what you are looking for though.

Here he is as a 3 yr old in the Cup Class at the Royal Winter Fair.

[IMG]https://scontent.fybz2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/27788221_10157237340513986_9055025515532141067_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=0bdc24cf2b00b6dcd0e3bb3c7c365d38&oe=5B740104&efg=eyJhZG1pc3Npb25fY29udHJvbCI6MSwidXBsb2FkZXJfaWQiOiI2NzkwNDM5ODUifQ%3D%3D)

[shanglebranch]

Thanks everyone. We are starting to lean toward Checkmate or Bliss, though I’m hearing from some that Checkmate is throwing more jumper-type foals. It’s such a tough decision but I really appreciate everyone’s feedback!

[andyvee]

I’m surprised no one has pushed Cabardino. He would be my top pick if looking specifically for a hunter. He is the top hunter sire at the moment. And you don’t get there without reason. He would cross very well with a larger framed tall mare too. He’s very modern and elegant and produces rideability, superb movement, and jump. What more could you ask for. He would be my pick hands down.

[DarkBayUnicorn]

I love my Cabardino baby. Everything I could’ve hoped for when I bred my mare. I will say, though, that in my experience, he really does let the mare’s personality shine through. We have 5 Cabardino offspring and one grandson in the barn right now, and they all take after their mothers in terms of personalities.