Finding it difficult to fully get into Dressage the 'proper' way, any advice?

[McGurk]

Lots of great advice here.

Yes, you can do it without riding a schoolmaster. Your horse appears to have some natural ability, and you have good instruction.

However, I wouldn’t completely give up on trying to find an opportunity to ride a schoolmaster because it is a wonderful addition to your education.

I’d continue your search, but change the ask somewhat. Look for an instructor or facility that will let you come for a weekend or long weekend and take twice a day lessons on their schoolmasters. Have someone take video of you and your current horse working to include with your request and have you current instructor write a recommendation. Explain that you want to experience the correct movement on a made horse before attempting on yours. Yes, it will still be expensive, but it will be a one time expense, not an an ongoing expense.

Focus on the level directly above where you’re working with your horse and anything you feel that you’re struggling with. It it’s an upper level horse or horses, go ahead and play with some advanced movements, but mostly focus on what’s next in the training process for you and your horse.

Best of luck, and hope you find something.

[SillyHorse]

@HorsesAreCool Sent you a PM

[HorsesAreCool]

Thank you for the reply! You make a really good point, and I don’t think I’ve given myself enough credit. Since embarking on this journey with my mare, I now feel things I never paid attention to and/or was ignorant on. For example, now I can feel the second my mare thinks to throw her outside shoulder out, and I can correct it quickly using my thigh/leg and a slight bit out outside rein. I now actually know what it feels like to have her back round underneath me. I can now feel if her butt is trailing behind, such as on a leg yield. I can feel when she hollows and gets generally unbalanced; sometimes I can’t put into perfect words exactly what is happening, but I can now feel it, and my body reacts and boom she’s back in balance, which causes her to come back to the bit and relax.

These things have been increasing more and more. I’m noticing more, and correcting more things without having to really think about it. Kinda like you said, it becomes automatic and very subtle.

And yes! My trainer has been ALL about the lateral movements. It has amazed me how they turn my horse into butter. Now that she’s getting more buttons, she likes to use them against me occasionally lol. Such as, she will do a very pretty hindquarter yield towards the gate. That’s been a new one. And now, since she’s naturally more of a ‘lazy’ mindset, when I give leg for the transition such as from walk to trot, she was like, “Ohh, instead of trotting, I’ll just round my back even more and push into the bridle as much as I can since now I know you like that! And then I won’t have to go faster!” Looks super pretty, but I need a trot! We spent one of our own rides correcting that and working on communicating the difference between pushing up into the bridle verses actual upward transitioning. So now that phase is over with, yay. But it is funny to see how she likes to try out her new buttons occasionally for naughty plans haha

But yeah after we drill some lateral movements, her self carriage is beautiful and so, so soft and effortless. I’m so excited to see where she’s at in a few months.

Realized I started rambling a bit haha, but thank you for your advice! Another commenter too mentioned making a trip of it as well, that way it’s more worth it and I can make it a full affair. I may just try to plan something like this for sometime this year.

[joiedevie99]

There are places, like Sons of the Wind in Florida, that cater to amateurs who want to have these kinds of experiences. You can go for 3 or 5 days and take 1 or 2 schoolmaster lessons each day you are there.

[HorsesAreCool]

Thank you for an actual barn recommendation! I have family down in FL, so this was super helpful. I may very well look into planning something with them when I visit my family next!

[hallie2]

they are in mass also, mostly Spanish horses.

[outerbanks77]

I say you can do it! I bought a very green 4 yo QH and brought her up to 2nd level with just lessons, no on else ever sitting on her. Now I’m at the stage of 2nd/3rd level with a WB mare no one else has ever sat on. I get lessons about one weekend a month, and it is working out. Last lesson we found a couple steps of passage and a couple steps of canter piri. I’d say an experienced rider knows in their bones what these movements feel like. The harder part is developing the connection. Also, just because someone else trained a horse, sitting on that horse and feeling that training doesn’t mean it’s CORRECT. International GP riders often need a year + to get in sync with a new mount, even if that horse is already trained to GP, because there is a secret language between each horse and rider pair. Although I’m at the point of pushing past what I’ve ever trained or ridden before, I’m feeling confident that I can do it, and get at least to PSG, because the pieces are there (i.e. half pass is just HI on a diagonal, flying changes = canter depart + change of balance). I have gone through the Ritter Dressage What, Why, How course a couple times and going into that theory in depth has been really helpful, because a better understand what my instructor is telling me, and how to apply the coaching when she’s not there. So a plug for continuing to bone up on theory, and not being afraid to experiment with it when you’re riding!

[Feathered_Feet]

@Grey623

Perhaps you could arrange to visit the 3-hour away schoolmaster and make it a mini-vacation. Take a 3-day weekend, ride each day, hang around the barn and watch other lessons if allowed. You could get a lot out of something like that.

This is a great idea, and I’ll go one step further - OP, can you bring your own horse? That way you can get two rides in per day - one on the schoolmaster, the other on yours, plus you hang around and watch lessons.

[Sherry99]

Hey, are there any dressage trainers near you that you can ride your horse with? That trainer might not have “lesson” horses, but I have had trainers who had clients with nice horses that I was able to get a lesson or 2 on when the owner was away. The trainer was able to say to the owner, hey I have a student that I can vouch for that I would love to have ride your horse. It’s gotten me on a few really nice horses that I wouldn’t otherwise have gotten to play with.

[Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom]

As others have said, it can be eye-opening to ride a schoolmaster, but it’s not necessary (and honestly, what it is, is HUMBLING!).

You might set your sights lower. When we hear “schoolmaster,” I think we automatically jump to a PSG horse or above. Try instead for a second- or third-level horse. These horses are often still in training, but that will give you a real feel for how your horse should be moving - and how you should be riding - when you get to those levels in the next couple of years (and would, I think, be more helpful in the short term).

I’ve sat on a PSG horse. And I’ve ridden a solid Third-Level horse. I learned much more from the Third Level horse, because I was riding Training and schooling First, and that horse gave me a better idea of what I needed my horse to feel like.

[2tempe]

Good suggestion from @joiedevie99 ! IMO if you cannot lease/buy a schoolmaster to learn on, some type of immersion therapy would be great. It can be tricky to learn much in a ride or two; they all have their own buttons, they may have bigger or springier gaits that you aren’t used to and its a lot to absorb. Something like this gives you a better chance of getting some real learning and not just overwhelmed by the situation. I vote for 5 days. They have a fine reputation as far as I’ve heard. A friend of mine wintered with them back in the 2012 timeframe, for several years.
Actually I’m smiling at your mare’s buttons. Horses are smarter than we give the credit for. My horse is 22 and still tries to respond to one button and then pop the other shoulder or slack off the hind end.

[rulex]

Like others have said, enjoy the journey and do the best you can with what’s available to you. With determination and some help, you will get there.

I posted this on another thread and will link it because there’s also good advice in that thread too. How to become a better rider?

I can’t stress enough how opportunities come up if you put yourself out there and are willing to ride any horse no matter the level of training. I recently found out a friend took a lesson on a school horse with a local trainer I’d done clinics with in the past and absolutely didn’t think had lesson horses. So I reached out to the trainer and scheduled the lesson thinking it would be on a basic school horse. Turns out it was on a 3rd level school master. What good luck! And having seen me ride my own horse and this school horse the trainer offered to put the word out to find me more horses to ride if I needed it. These are not opportunities that you can do a google search for. You need to get out there and connect with folks. Put yourself out there on your own horse. Go to clinics, tell the clinicians you are serious about learning more.

A few people have mentioned booking a trip to ride school masters. If you can swing it, I highly recommend it. I went to Portugal recently and it was a great experience, and I also felt it was good value. I’ve been lucky in the past to get to sit on upper level school masters here and there. But the experience of having access to literally a whole stable of well trained horses and instructors who are thoughtful about matching you with the right horses based on what you need to work on for your 2 rides a day was amazing. I got to try a couple of movements I hadn’t before like canter pirouettes and looking back over my rides for the week I realized the instructors systematically chose horses and structured lessons to build towards that. I did also find those horses much more forgiving than the UL WBs I’ve had the chance to sit on, so there’s also the benefit of getting to play around on well trained horses whose job it is to pack around amateurs of varying skill levels.

[Hilary]

You can totally do it if you have a good instructor, which it sounds like you do. You are probably at one of the hardest jumps (go look for the threads on “why is getting to 2nd level so hard”. Will it be easier the second time you train a horse up the levels? Sure but you can get there without learning on a schoolmaster.

My friend has trained her horse to PSG and I can only think of a handful of times someone else has ridden him (including people like me who are NOT upper level riders) and she doesn’t have access to an upper level horse.

As long as your instructors knows to say “YES! that’s right” when you and your horse get something, and gives you instruction on how to use your body to get your horse to do what you’re asking you can do it. The schoolmaster horses just help you confirm “ah, this is what renvers feels like” a little faster.

[Long_Time_Lurker]

@HorsesAreCool

ooh that’s not a bad idea! That makes the trip a bit more worth it if I actually spend multiple days. I very well may just have to plan something like this sometime this

If you are able to go for several days two or three times a year it would be a great help, more than most people get unless they do a stint as a full time (usually 24/7) working student, and not always even then. If this trainer is more “upper level” than your regular trainer, eventually you may want to take your horse for these trips too. Another idea: I know of a trainer who used to offer an “intensive week” in Florida over the winter. A lot of people who couldn’t possibly go for the season can manage to go for a week. She had an mid/upper level schoolmaster, but unfortunately that horse has had to retire. I don’t know of anyone who currently does this with an upper level horse available, but it is something else to search for.

[starsandsun]

I never got so far, or learned so much, as when I fired my trainer and had to learn it by myself. Of course we made mistakes, and it’s taken longer, but it has been so rewarding to really build a relationship of ‘hey, let’s try this and see what happens’ with my boy. Now, I do have a top notch pro who comes by quarterly, but I am thrilled that our growth has largely been by my hands. You can do it!!!

[atlatl]

I think you may be equating “proper” with “ideal.”

While it’s “ideal” to have access to a schoolmaster and outstanding instruction, the reality is that rarely is the case for the majority of riders. You can still be successful though and it sounds like you’re on your way there already.

[Hawks_Nest]

@hallie2

they are in mass also, mostly Spanish horses.

They actually are not in MA anymore, they sold their farm up here last year and are staying in FL as far as I know.

[CanteringCarrot]

@Hilary

My friend has trained her horse to PSG and I can only think of a handful of times someone else has ridden him (including people like me who are NOT upper level riders) and she doesn’t have access to an upper level horse.

This was me at one point in my dressage journey. I did a lot of lessons and a lot of clinics. Someone else had ridden my horse a time or two, and I had never ridden dressage beyond riding dressage tests while eventing up to Novice level. So you can get there. With the right horse, the right mindfulness, and the right support.

It may not be the ideal way, but it’s a way that many of us have had to take at one point or another. I’ve since spent time aboard some school master types.

I will say it depends on your level of awareness, thoughtfulness, and learning style as to whether this type of road will lead you to Rome. It’s not impossible though!

[atr]

I think many of us amateurs start out the same way you are. I know I did. But at some point there comes the need/opportunity to purchase the “next horse.”

Thats when some of us buy our precious dressage schoolmaster. Then we spend the next number of years gratefully babying them and holding them together with chewing gum and string, while we learn so much from them. And then, maybe we are ready to move on to training one up ourselves, if we haven’t at that point aged out of the concept of throwing a leg over a youngster!

I’ve shared my quirky but highly educated guy with our brilliant working student, heavily supervised by our trainer. I let him show him a couple of times last year to get medal scores. But I’m entirely selfish about not letting anyone else on him. Those educated legs have only got so many miles left in them.

[Salty]

I got to have lessons on a PSG horse. I saw her for sale ad, she was ridiculously cheap but still out of my budget, so I called the owner and said, “I can’t afford your horse, but why is she so cheap?” The owner said, “Because I don’t really want to sell her. I can refuse a small amount of money, but not a large amount of money!”. I thought, you’re crazy and I like you!

I asked her if I could come see the horse even though I couldn’t afford her, and the owner said yes. I rode her, and she said, “I like the way you ride her. If you have a weekly lesson from me, you can ride her whenever you want!”

I got this amazing opportunity by using the mantra, “No for an answer I’ve already got.” The horse was an hour away, and in another country, but it was worth it.

You can do this! Be creative and bold and you never know what could happen.