Finding it difficult to fully get into Dressage the 'proper' way, any advice?

[HorsesAreCool]

So background on me: Riding for 20+ years, but most of it was in jumpers. Had some bad accidents, so tried to switch to Hunters. I bought my lovely green mare who is half Andalusian. Long story short, she ended up not having any interest in jumping, but our beginning dressage lessons she was blossoming beautifully. Just picked up everything quickly, and has just shown much more interest in it. I also finally came to terms with myself that jumping is no longer for me, and this whole experience peaked a new interest/passion in myself for dressage. So we made the full switch to dressage!!

My mare continues to excel and do great! I’m working with my same trainer, who luckily has good experience on the training side. So far we’ve brought my mare from 0 to finishing up level one. She will soon begin level two once we finish perfecting the last bit of level one. I have no complaints on her progress and am so proud of her, and myself if I’m being honest since I didn’t originally come from a dressage background haha.

But where I’m getting frustrated: My trainer is great. Everything she teaches me has aligned more with Classical Dressage, and my mare’s success is the proof in the pudding. However, my trainer isn’t focused in giving higher level dressage lessons (unless you have your own horse); therefore, she doesn’t have that kind of lesson horse available. Most of the clientele around where we live are children or hunter/jumper. We also happen to live in a more rural area.

I’ve wanted to take additional lessons with a full Dressage coach on one of their Dressage school masters just for my own education, and to actually see what it feels like to ride a more finished Dressage horse since I never have.

I have made endless calls and searches, and essentially it just does not exist unless I somehow had the power/time to drive 3+ hours away. The ones that are within 1-2 hours only have beginner lessons available for students, which doesn’t really help me.

I guess I’m just feeling insecure about my journey. My trainer tells me my mare is coming along great, she even showed me an old picture of her just to show how drastic her muscling and topline has changed. But I can’t help feel I’m messing things up by never having ridden a more finished dressage horse or with a top level dressage coach that’s older.

Every time I go into forums, the above gets suggested over and over and over. But I’m coming to terms with no matter how badly I would love to do those things, it just doesn’t exist where I live.

Does anyone have some success stories about not doing it the ‘perfect’ way? I would love to hear them. I try to be logical and look at my mares progress, but then the self doubt creeps in, and I’m getting tired of how hard on myself I am.

[Lunabear1988]

The dressage schoolmaster as a lesson horse is a rare find these days. I think there’s some vacation destinations that offer this type of thing though if that’s an option?

Also you might have more luck if you can actually lease an upper level dressage horse versus just lessons.

I got lucky, as a working student I was able to ride and do basically a work to ride lease on my trainer’s PSG mare. And then I had a vet that had a semi retired 3rd level horse that he let me ride a few times. edited to add, until he bucked me off and then he revealed that he was mostly retired because of a back issue that made him buck lol but his flying changes were fun!

But I’ve never found too many places with lesson horses with anything much above second level.

If you can’t find anything to ride that’s upper level, I would just go watch as many good riders as you can… Audit clinics. Ride in clinics. Video yourself.

[HorsesAreCool]

Thank you for the reply! Unfortunately, due to finances, leasing an additional horse on top of owning my mare and the expenses that entails just aren’t in the cards But even if I financially could, I think it would be at one of those barns that’s 3+ hours away unfortunately.

That’s awesome you got those opportunities! It’s interesting if this indeed just isn’t common, and not just due to my area, that it gets suggested to do so often like it’s an easy thing to find lol

And absolutely! I watch videos almost daily and take progress videos of me and my mare. So I will definitely keep doing those things!

[Lunabear1988]

Maybe it’s more common in certain areas or maybe it used to be more common. I think part of the reason there’s less lesson horses available in general is due to the rising upkeep cost with everything.

That being said is there a particular skill that you’re wanting to learn more about from a horse? Such as are you trying to get a feel for a horse to truly be over its back and correctly into the contact? Or are you at the point where your trying your hand at lateral work like Haunches in or a Halfpass? Or flying changes?

I ask because A lot of programs will have something that you can get the feel for some of the lower level stuff. Even a good hunter jumper program is going to have something that can probably do at least some basic lateral work.

And I just remembered I found some unlikely schoolmasters over the years too. I rode this pony that was a lateral work machine, really helped me with my haunches in. And I rode a older horse for a lady that was actually into Western dressage. That horse was also very talented at all the lateral work. But they weren’t fancy horses. The older horse I rode in the ladies pasture but he was very trained and I enjoyed it anyway.

Just keep putting yourself out there. Maybe put a post on Facebook? With video of you riding. That’s how I found a lot of opportunities. I’ve gotten to ride tons of horses over the years by putting myself out there.

Good luck and welcome to the dressage side of things. It’s addictive

[thereadinghorse]

I might not be the ideal person to answer your question. So, sorry, if my answer isn’t quite what you’re looking for.

Obviously a schoolmaster would be great, but I never had any luck in finding one myself. So I just rode my own mare. And oh how many times did I think to myself: “I just need a schoolmaster to learn to do those things correctly”. But now, after 10 years with my once 10 year old unbroken mare and me being 19 and overestimating my training skills, I can confidently say: We reached all our goals and much more! Just believe in yourself. Of course it’s a long road and it might be significantly longer than the road with a schoolmaster, but it’s not a road unwalkable!

You mare is improving, you are improving, so there’s no reason to think, that you can’t make it. As long as you have a good trainer at your side, things will work out.

I never rode flying changes before I bought my mare. She was - as mentioned - 10 and never been touched. So I learned flying changes WITH her. We just did it. It took some years and certainly longer, than any professional would ever need. But she learned it and I learned it! Same is with many other things we just learned together.

Keep on with your mare and keep your eyes open for a possibilty. Maybe go to some clinics (is this common in the US?), get to know new trainers and try to do some networking.

[dmveventer]

Most of us are doing things the “not perfect” way, your situation is pretty common actually. It may not be the perfect textbook solution but it does work! Upper-level dressage schoolmasters just aren’t very common, even in more populated/dressage-heavy areas. These horses are worth their weight in gold and retain plenty of value for sale or lease, and given the cost of maintaining them it just doesn’t make financial sense to keep them around for just the occasional lesson.

I do think it’s a good idea to ride with other trainers and get outside input, but you can do that with your current horse through clinics and shows. Just getting the outside validation of your horse’s progress may help you feel more secure in your ability, plus it’s always helpful to hear new ways of thinking about things.

[HorsesAreCool]

Thank you again! So my mare indeed has been learning lateral movements. So far, the progress has been smooth. She can yield on the haunches, and on the forehand in halt/walk. She is beginning and starting to understand walking forward on the rail with her haunches in while maintaining an inside bend (she did great on this one in our last lesson). She is about 90% of the way there to a perfect leg yield at walk and trot. She’s beginning to do great with moving her shoulders around at the trot. And in the month, she has begun more drastically using her core and hind end as a result from a lot of these exercises. I can really feel her round underneath my seat and my trainer grabbed some pictures to show me how her back is rounding. So on and so forth!

What first began my want in riding a dressage schoolmaster was when I saw comments go something like this, “Yeah the first time I sat on an upper level dressage horse, it was really eye opening to how I was using my seat bones. If you didn’t do it correctly, you confused the horse. Once you did it perfect, boom the horse responds nicely.” In jumpers, there wasn’t nearly as much emphasis on fine tuning your seat bones to the degree that dressage seems to. So while my mare indeed has been improving, I can’t help but always wonder if my seat bones are doing exactly what they should be while teaching her. I’m referring to those super subtle movements that are invisible from the ground. I know what I ‘should’ be doing, but I guess I’ll never really know if those fine tuned movements are 100% unless I tried it out on a horse that was taught by a legit high level dressage trainer.

I hope that makes sense?

[HorsesAreCool]

Honestly, this was so nice to read. We are in a similar position, I also somehow found a super green 10 year old hahaha! My mare was 10 years old and only knew how to slowly walk and trot around with her head up in the air like a giraffe.

This story gives me hope and let me just take a breath. Because you’re right, there is forward progress being made, and I couldn’t be more thankful for my mare’s brain. My trainer also seems to have full confidence in me and isn’t worried in the slightest, it’s just me doing all the doubting lol. My trainer has been so happy with the speed of our progress and I need to trust her words more!

[dmveventer]

@HorsesAreCool

It’s interesting if this indeed just isn’t common, and not just due to my area, that it gets suggested to do so often like it’s an easy thing to find lol

It gets suggested a lot because it IS valuable if you can swing it, but people who put this out there are generally talking about buying or leasing one of these horses or riding horses belonging to people you know (like hopping on your trainer’s upper-level horse to get a feel for a specific movement). Most people on this board are pretty quick to point out that lesson horses are becoming a thing of the past in general, even more so for specialized disciplines like dressage and eventing.

[Lunabear1988]

Sounds like you guys are doing great together. I wouldn’t stress about it! Like others said must of us are doing this in a less than ideal way!

I’ve talked to a lady that went all the way to Grand Prix on her horse by just doing mostly video lessons! She didn’t make it sound like she had ridden a schoolmaster either. And she got all the way to Grand Prix in a very unconventional way.

Can’t tell from your post, does your trainer ride your horse at all or is it just lessons? For the first time ever I had a horse in training. And honestly it gave him kind of a schoolmaster effect. He was so used to the professionals asking correctly that if I asked wrong it was not going to happen right. Lol. His great because he’ll tell you if you’re too crooked or something and he’s only 6. So having her ride could give you a boost but it sounds like you guys are doing amazing already.

[HorsesAreCool]

Thank you so much for the kind words! Honestly, you make a good point! Usually it’s just me that rides my mare. I’ve paid my trainer to ride her when I’ve gotten sick or had to be out of town. But I may very well take your suggestion and get some rides on her by my trainer. Plus it could be eye opening if my trainer asks her to do something that I was the one training her on, and she doesn’t respond correctly. Then we can compare notes on what I’m doing differently and how to fix lol.

[thereadinghorse]

If you’re interested I could dive deeper into how much we’ve overcome, if this might help you feeling less lost and stuck And I love to hear from other people with “old greenies”. I heard so many bs along the way and many people suggested selling my mare etc. because we had some real bad stuff going on in between the purchase 2014 and now. But I can’t think of any better horse I could own and I’m thankful for every minute I got and hopefully get to spend with her. Growing together creates a really tight bond and I wouldn’t want it any other way. And I was close to giving up so many times. I can’t count how many times I thought “If I just had a better trained horse!”… Turns out, this green horse probably taught me more, than any schoolmaster could have ever done So don’t see you mare’s “lack of training” as a bad thing. It’s as good as it is bad at the same time!

[thereadinghorse]

I second this! My trainer has ridden my mare quite a bunch of times and it helped A LOT!

[HorsesAreCool]

You are so very correct. Going through this process has taught me SOOOOOO much. There are definitely pros, despite it not being the ‘correct’ way. For example, having my green mare made me go through the process of how you actually teach a horse to begin accepting and ‘being on the bit.’ It’s taught me what the baby steps are towards lateral movements and how to actually get your horse to understand. It’s taught me there is no magic button to get your horse to use their core and hind, and what exercises all go together to start achieving this over time. Actually going through the process from the ground up has helped so many principals click in my brain as far as development up the training scales!

And absolutely I’m interested! I would love to hear what you’ve overcome, I love war stories

[thereadinghorse]

So you actually learned a lot!

I’d love to share my story, as I’m a chittery chattery girl . I’m not quite sure, if this post is the right place. You’d need to tell me, if you like me posting it on here or sending you a PM Or start my own thread. I don’t know. Could be quite nice writing all this stuff down from a retrospective.

[HorsesAreCool]

That’s so considerate of you to ask I’d love for you to post it here! That way if anyone else in my position comes across this, they can take some heart from your stories.

[Grey623]

Perhaps you could arrange to visit the 3-hour away schoolmaster and make it a mini-vacation. Take a 3-day weekend, ride each day, hang around the barn and watch other lessons if allowed. You could get a lot out of something like that.

Grey

[Lunabear1988]

Great idea!! I might have to look for something like that… I could use a tune up.

[HorsesAreCool]

ooh that’s not a bad idea! That makes the trip a bit more worth it if I actually spend multiple days. I very well may just have to plan something like this sometime this year!

[Hawks_Nest]

The best thing about training a horse in dressage is that just because you don’t know what perfect is, doesn’t mean you can’t find it. The younger years can be tough but with a good instructor, you can find what your horse thinks is the best way to be asked to do something. Horses don’t read the book, they feel you and so what clicks from them will feel amazing when it happens, even if you have to flounder a little bit.

As an example, I am a pro but I’ve not competed above I1 and I’ve never ridden 1s or a passage on a made horse. I’ve trained my current boy from coming 4 with less than 60 days under saddle, he’s now 8. My coach has been helping me introduce passage to him this winter. With me never having ridden passage, my horse not being a naturally flamboyant mover, and it being winter in NH, I wasn’t particularly optimistic. In two months, he is now offering passage steps. Did the first few things we tried work all that well? Not really. My coach has instructed me on what to do with my body but I am also feeling what my boy responds best to and ultimately we’ll figure out what works best for both of us, which isn’t necessarily going to be the thing that my coach tries first if he ever gets on

Good luck with your girl and have fun with it. And if she is young, be patient, there is usually a time when suddenly everything starts to click and sometimes you have to go through a lot of messy idiocy to find it.