I decided to open my own topic, because what I typed got QUITE long: My horsey story
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You can come to this on your own horse. If your trainer is good and you work at your position and balance, and your horseās balance you will find that as you learn more you do less - that thinking something will make it happen. You must work to find good balance and suppleness in your riding which will quiet your seat and allow the horse to hear smaller aids.
It makes my heart sing that your trainer is working on having you yield your horse through the shoulders and hind quarters. These are the exercises which will bring greater and greater lateral balance to your horse which will help you sit better. In time you will begin to feel any shift of balance and will have the tools to fix it before itās even seen from the ground.
You can do this on any horse and I would almost argue that itās more beneficial to learn it on a horse that is also learning it.
That said, if a school master opportunity comes along jump at it. The feeling of ease of doing various movements will give you a more clear target to work towards.
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Lots of great advice here.
Yes, you can do it without riding a schoolmaster. Your horse appears to have some natural ability, and you have good instruction.
However, I wouldnāt completely give up on trying to find an opportunity to ride a schoolmaster because it is a wonderful addition to your education.
Iād continue your search, but change the ask somewhat. Look for an instructor or facility that will let you come for a weekend or long weekend and take twice a day lessons on their schoolmasters. Have someone take video of you and your current horse working to include with your request and have you current instructor write a recommendation. Explain that you want to experience the correct movement on a made horse before attempting on yours. Yes, it will still be expensive, but it will be a one time expense, not an an ongoing expense.
Focus on the level directly above where youāre working with your horse and anything you feel that youāre struggling with. It itās an upper level horse or horses, go ahead and play with some advanced movements, but mostly focus on whatās next in the training process for you and your horse.
Best of luck, and hope you find something.
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Thank you for the reply! You make a really good point, and I donāt think Iāve given myself enough credit. Since embarking on this journey with my mare, I now feel things I never paid attention to and/or was ignorant on. For example, now I can feel the second my mare thinks to throw her outside shoulder out, and I can correct it quickly using my thigh/leg and a slight bit out outside rein. I now actually know what it feels like to have her back round underneath me. I can now feel if her butt is trailing behind, such as on a leg yield. I can feel when she hollows and gets generally unbalanced; sometimes I canāt put into perfect words exactly what is happening, but I can now feel it, and my body reacts and boom sheās back in balance, which causes her to come back to the bit and relax.
These things have been increasing more and more. Iām noticing more, and correcting more things without having to really think about it. Kinda like you said, it becomes automatic and very subtle.
And yes! My trainer has been ALL about the lateral movements. It has amazed me how they turn my horse into butter. Now that sheās getting more buttons, she likes to use them against me occasionally lol. Such as, she will do a very pretty hindquarter yield towards the gate. Thatās been a new one. And now, since sheās naturally more of a ālazyā mindset, when I give leg for the transition such as from walk to trot, she was like, āOhh, instead of trotting, Iāll just round my back even more and push into the bridle as much as I can since now I know you like that! And then I wonāt have to go faster!ā Looks super pretty, but I need a trot! We spent one of our own rides correcting that and working on communicating the difference between pushing up into the bridle verses actual upward transitioning. So now that phase is over with, yay. But it is funny to see how she likes to try out her new buttons occasionally for naughty plans haha
But yeah after we drill some lateral movements, her self carriage is beautiful and so, so soft and effortless. Iām so excited to see where sheās at in a few months.
Realized I started rambling a bit haha, but thank you for your advice! Another commenter too mentioned making a trip of it as well, that way itās more worth it and I can make it a full affair. I may just try to plan something like this for sometime this year.
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There are places, like Sons of the Wind in Florida, that cater to amateurs who want to have these kinds of experiences. You can go for 3 or 5 days and take 1 or 2 schoolmaster lessons each day you are there.
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Thank you for an actual barn recommendation! I have family down in FL, so this was super helpful. I may very well look into planning something with them when I visit my family next!
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they are in mass also, mostly Spanish horses.
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I say you can do it! I bought a very green 4 yo QH and brought her up to 2nd level with just lessons, no on else ever sitting on her. Now Iām at the stage of 2nd/3rd level with a WB mare no one else has ever sat on. I get lessons about one weekend a month, and it is working out. Last lesson we found a couple steps of passage and a couple steps of canter piri. Iād say an experienced rider knows in their bones what these movements feel like. The harder part is developing the connection. Also, just because someone else trained a horse, sitting on that horse and feeling that training doesnāt mean itās CORRECT. International GP riders often need a year + to get in sync with a new mount, even if that horse is already trained to GP, because there is a secret language between each horse and rider pair. Although Iām at the point of pushing past what Iāve ever trained or ridden before, Iām feeling confident that I can do it, and get at least to PSG, because the pieces are there (i.e. half pass is just HI on a diagonal, flying changes = canter depart + change of balance). I have gone through the Ritter Dressage What, Why, How course a couple times and going into that theory in depth has been really helpful, because a better understand what my instructor is telling me, and how to apply the coaching when sheās not there. So a plug for continuing to bone up on theory, and not being afraid to experiment with it when youāre riding!
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This is a great idea, and Iāll go one step further - OP, can you bring your own horse? That way you can get two rides in per day - one on the schoolmaster, the other on yours, plus you hang around and watch lessons.
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Hey, are there any dressage trainers near you that you can ride your horse with? That trainer might not have ālessonā horses, but I have had trainers who had clients with nice horses that I was able to get a lesson or 2 on when the owner was away. The trainer was able to say to the owner, hey I have a student that I can vouch for that I would love to have ride your horse. Itās gotten me on a few really nice horses that I wouldnāt otherwise have gotten to play with.
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As others have said, it can be eye-opening to ride a schoolmaster, but itās not necessary (and honestly, what it is, is HUMBLING!).
You might set your sights lower. When we hear āschoolmaster,ā I think we automatically jump to a PSG horse or above. Try instead for a second- or third-level horse. These horses are often still in training, but that will give you a real feel for how your horse should be moving - and how you should be riding - when you get to those levels in the next couple of years (and would, I think, be more helpful in the short term).
Iāve sat on a PSG horse. And Iāve ridden a solid Third-Level horse. I learned much more from the Third Level horse, because I was riding Training and schooling First, and that horse gave me a better idea of what I needed my horse to feel like.
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Good suggestion from @joiedevie99 ! IMO if you cannot lease/buy a schoolmaster to learn on, some type of immersion therapy would be great. It can be tricky to learn much in a ride or two; they all have their own buttons, they may have bigger or springier gaits that you arenāt used to and its a lot to absorb. Something like this gives you a better chance of getting some real learning and not just overwhelmed by the situation. I vote for 5 days. They have a fine reputation as far as Iāve heard. A friend of mine wintered with them back in the 2012 timeframe, for several years.
Actually Iām smiling at your mareās buttons. Horses are smarter than we give the credit for. My horse is 22 and still tries to respond to one button and then pop the other shoulder or slack off the hind end.
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Like others have said, enjoy the journey and do the best you can with whatās available to you. With determination and some help, you will get there.
I posted this on another thread and will link it because thereās also good advice in that thread too. How to become a better rider?
I canāt stress enough how opportunities come up if you put yourself out there and are willing to ride any horse no matter the level of training. I recently found out a friend took a lesson on a school horse with a local trainer Iād done clinics with in the past and absolutely didnāt think had lesson horses. So I reached out to the trainer and scheduled the lesson thinking it would be on a basic school horse. Turns out it was on a 3rd level school master. What good luck! And having seen me ride my own horse and this school horse the trainer offered to put the word out to find me more horses to ride if I needed it. These are not opportunities that you can do a google search for. You need to get out there and connect with folks. Put yourself out there on your own horse. Go to clinics, tell the clinicians you are serious about learning more.
A few people have mentioned booking a trip to ride school masters. If you can swing it, I highly recommend it. I went to Portugal recently and it was a great experience, and I also felt it was good value. Iāve been lucky in the past to get to sit on upper level school masters here and there. But the experience of having access to literally a whole stable of well trained horses and instructors who are thoughtful about matching you with the right horses based on what you need to work on for your 2 rides a day was amazing. I got to try a couple of movements I hadnāt before like canter pirouettes and looking back over my rides for the week I realized the instructors systematically chose horses and structured lessons to build towards that. I did also find those horses much more forgiving than the UL WBs Iāve had the chance to sit on, so thereās also the benefit of getting to play around on well trained horses whose job it is to pack around amateurs of varying skill levels.
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You can totally do it if you have a good instructor, which it sounds like you do. You are probably at one of the hardest jumps (go look for the threads on āwhy is getting to 2nd level so hardā. Will it be easier the second time you train a horse up the levels? Sure but you can get there without learning on a schoolmaster.
My friend has trained her horse to PSG and I can only think of a handful of times someone else has ridden him (including people like me who are NOT upper level riders) and she doesnāt have access to an upper level horse.
As long as your instructors knows to say āYES! thatās rightā when you and your horse get something, and gives you instruction on how to use your body to get your horse to do what youāre asking you can do it. The schoolmaster horses just help you confirm āah, this is what renvers feels likeā a little faster.
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If you are able to go for several days two or three times a year it would be a great help, more than most people get unless they do a stint as a full time (usually 24/7) working student, and not always even then. If this trainer is more āupper levelā than your regular trainer, eventually you may want to take your horse for these trips too. Another idea: I know of a trainer who used to offer an āintensive weekā in Florida over the winter. A lot of people who couldnāt possibly go for the season can manage to go for a week. She had an mid/upper level schoolmaster, but unfortunately that horse has had to retire. I donāt know of anyone who currently does this with an upper level horse available, but it is something else to search for.
I never got so far, or learned so much, as when I fired my trainer and had to learn it by myself. Of course we made mistakes, and itās taken longer, but it has been so rewarding to really build a relationship of āhey, letās try this and see what happensā with my boy. Now, I do have a top notch pro who comes by quarterly, but I am thrilled that our growth has largely been by my hands. You can do it!!!
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I think you may be equating āproperā with āideal.ā
While itās āidealā to have access to a schoolmaster and outstanding instruction, the reality is that rarely is the case for the majority of riders. You can still be successful though and it sounds like youāre on your way there already.
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They actually are not in MA anymore, they sold their farm up here last year and are staying in FL as far as I know.
This was me at one point in my dressage journey. I did a lot of lessons and a lot of clinics. Someone else had ridden my horse a time or two, and I had never ridden dressage beyond riding dressage tests while eventing up to Novice level. So you can get there. With the right horse, the right mindfulness, and the right support.
It may not be the ideal way, but itās a way that many of us have had to take at one point or another. Iāve since spent time aboard some school master types.
I will say it depends on your level of awareness, thoughtfulness, and learning style as to whether this type of road will lead you to Rome. Itās not impossible though!
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