Finding OTTB Info?

[RHdobes563]

I have been looking for my next (and probably LAST) horse for the past 14 months since I had to put down my Morgan gelding. I have been looking for a Lippitt or 100% Foundation gelding/mare, but the I haven’t found EXACTLY what I’m looking for (age, training, price, distance from home). I am rather inflexible in the above but have told my cousin/friend and the barn owner that I am more open to a horse of a different breed which would be, if I got one, a ‘fill-in’ or ‘second’ horse. (I am lucky enough to be able to afford the board for two horses at the long-time barn where I have boarded.)

That being said, I was perusing craigslist this morning and found a OTTB gelding. He is a ‘nephew’, of an OTTB gelding I owned 17 years ago. He is only 75 miles from where I live, described as “very quiet” and “100% sound.” His price is twice what I would look to pay for a ‘second’ horse, barely off the track (less than 6 weeks), and is bigger than I like (16.2, prefer 16.0 or less, as I am a short-legged 5’4"). Being an OTTB, the gelding MIGHT need shoes (my blacksmith only trims, doesn’t shoe), something for ulcers, and probably, professional re-training. In addition, I think my personality suits quieter breeds, although I don’t have a FEAR of hotter horses.

Disclaimer: I wasn’t that attached to my former OTTB, but I think that some of the problems I had with him MAY have been caused by the (previous) barn owner I had. Also, although my OTTB had a fantastic walk (12" overstride at a NORMAL walk) and nice canter/gallop, I could never learn to post his sewing-machine trot. He was, also, spooky on the trails which I ended up using him for, as my divorce thereafter cancelled any other horsey aspirations due to (lack of) finances.

Now, along with, “Are you CRAZY to consider buying this horse?” based on above, I have some questions. I THINK I remember people here in the Racing Forum being able to find out if a TB had been 'vanned off/did not finish/other racing-related stuff." If there is a place I can find this information, I am willing to pay for it. This gelding didn’t earn much in his racing career. There was some in 2018, next-to-nothing in 2019, and some in 2020, and it makes me wonder if he was laid up in 2019. (I WOULD have a (moderate) PPE done before purchasing.)

Also, he is listed as a “Horse” on pedigreequery.com. Is there a way to find out WHEN he was gelded? If purchased, he would be put in a ‘mixed herd’; I wouldn’t want/couldn’t have a recently gelded horse which MIGHT cause trouble.

I don’t know if I am SERIOUSLY thinking of buying or even looking at him. However, knowing some of the above may help me to make a decision about it.

Thanks in advance for any and all help in this.

[RHdobes563]

Whoops! Got the racing years wrong! Some in 2017, hardly anything in 2018, some in 2019, hardly anything in 2020.

[LaurieB]

Much of the information you’re looking for can be found on Equibase for free. www.equibase.com

What is the horse’s name?

[RHdobes563]

Bombonero. That’s where I found his earnings, but the rest…?

[mht]

@RHdobes563

Bombonero. That’s where I found his earnings, but the rest…?

You would need to read the ‘comments’ section at the bottom of the chart for each of his races. They will tell you how he ran, and you should also be able to figure out through the race results when he was gelded.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Equibase shows him as a gelding.

https://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=9647710&registry=T&rbt=TB

He has raced 7 times in 2020 and didn’t hit the board. Overall, 42 starts, 3 firsts, 1 second, 5 thirds. Don’t know if he has ever been vanned off but finished 8th of 10 horses in his last race in August. My guess is just no longer competitive.

[LaurieB]

According to what I see on the charts, he was gelded sometime between August 2017 and August 2019.

He raced 13 times in 2019, which doesn’t seem like next to nothing to me. Unfortunately he didn’t earn much money for all that effort.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@LaurieB

He raced 13 times in 2019, which doesn’t seem like next to nothing to me. Unfortunately he didn’t earn much money for all that effort.

I think the ‘next to nothing’ comment was directed at earnings rather than starts. I would agree that 2019 was many starts for not much return.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@RHdobes563

Bombonero. That’s where I found his earnings, but the rest…?

Click on the Results tab to the right of the Statistics tab.

If you scroll down on the Results page there is a table which summarizes Career by year, Starts, Placings, Earnings and then use the Results table to peruse any charts you are interested in.

[LaurieB]

Bear in mind that racing was shut down for most of the first half of 2020.

Covid is what gave that horse the first real break he’d ever had after running in 35 races over a 3 year period, starting when he was 2. To say that he had a grueling schedule would be an understatement.

When racing resumed this year, Bombonero raced twice in June, three times in July, and twice in August. It’s hard to imagine how that can be seen as hardly anything.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@LaurieB

When racing resumed this year, Bombonero raced twice in June, three times in July, and twice in August. It’s hard to imagine how that can be seen as hardly anything.

When one just glances at the Stats bar chart from Equibase, yeah 2020 looks to be ‘hardly anything’. Gotta read between the lines that the horse did race a fair number of times but also wasn’t placing well so not winning much.

I can see why Bombonero was perhaps retired.

[Texarkana]

In a lifetime of owning horses, most of them OTTBs, gelding date tells you diddly squat about how the horse will handle a mixed herd environment.

Go look at the horse and go with your gut. Remember that 95% of horse sellers (racing or not) “embellish” the truth, so I’d put more stock in what you can see with your own eyes and not what someone tells you. In casually perusing his charts, this horse has gone through a number of different connections in his career, so I doubt you will ever get the whole truth. You’re already being fed BS by whomever is selling him about earning “next to nothing” in 2019, as it was the most profitable year of his career (albeit still meager earnings). Maybe the seller is just confused; it always amazes me how people manage to badly botch stats on TBs when everything is easily accessible for free.

[RHdobes563]

@Where'sMyWhite

I think the ‘next to nothing’ comment was directed at earnings rather than starts. I would agree that 2019 was many starts for not much return.

Yes, you are correct in what I meant. I SHOULD have looked to see how many starts he had, as he could have (haven’t looked yet) MORE starts in the least-earning-years as the years in which he earned more. He earned, believe it or not, a lot more money than did my original OTTB, Arbor Gate.

Texarkana, I corrected the “next to nothing” in 2019 statement I wrote in Post #2—I got the years he earned ‘something’ wrong. Also, quoting you here, “In a lifetime of owning horses, most of them OTTBs, gelding date tells you diddly squat about how the horse will handle a mixed herd environment.” That is true. The first horse I owned AFTER my one-and-only OTTB was a Morgan who was gelded at age 9; he had sired 7 offspring before then. He never exhibited latent stallion-like behavior in the mixed boarding herd, no matter how the horses changed as other boarders came and went. He saved that for when he was tacked up. In the pasture, he was a dumpy looking, indiscriminate bay gelding. As soon as I put his bridle on, his head came up, his neck arched, and that was the way he always traveled on trail and along-the-road rides. I always described it/him as 'turning into “The Black” (Stallion).

But I have boarded at barns where there were some seriously DANGEROUS geldings. I have been lucky enough to have had my last two horses in a beautiful barn where they were well-fed and cared for, at a price which is MUCH less than the average around here or anywhere. The BO owner is no longer advertising for boarders (he has 2 horses himself and 1 boarder (my cousin’s horse) in his 10-stall barn) but has told me that I am welcome if I ever find another horse.

Regarding the Thoroughbred above, Bombonero, I have NOT spoken to his current owner. I discovered this horse in a craigslist ad. OTTBs are not my forte’, but I DO love the breed. Despite the fact that my OTTB “Khan” (Arbor Gate) gave me LOTS of grief, I am excited to find ‘relations’ of his wherever I do.

Thank you all, for your help and answering my questions. I will put it off until tomorrow, as it is now 1:30 a.m., and I spent most of today watching horse races on TV while it rained here. Yea, Swiss Skydiver!!

[Texarkana]

@RHdobes563 My bad, I’m sorry I completely skipped past your correction without seeing it.

[RHdobes563]

I’ve now gone over charts now—SO interesting in what you read there. He, obviously was NOT a good racehorse.

Between 8/24/17 (won as a ‘colt’) and 6/26/19 (won as a ‘gelding’), there is a 3 1/2 month spread from early February 2019 to mid-May 2019 where he didn’t race–maybe the gelding was done during that time.

Haven’t decided whether to inquire about him. He’s decent enough looking despite the bad photographs and views of him. But I will continue to ‘check-in’ on him through the craigslist ad. As I stated before, he would be a ‘second horse’, not the prime (Morgan) that I have been searching for for the last 14 months.

Thanks again for everyone’s help in this!

[SPRINGBORO]

he’s a gelding, but I am a pedigree freak and see some interesting things to note!

He’s by K One King, who I think is probably the only son of Apalachee around anymore. Apalachee was a wonderful son of Round Table and source of turf speed. K One King won a big G1 race and was sorta lost to obscurity until he resurfaced a few years ago, still at stud. He hasn’t had a stellar career at stud, but I still love to see his progeny.

The big thing about this gelding is the distaff; the female side of the family. He’s from some commercial breeding farms, and his dam is a 1/2 sister to some pretty talented horses. Sadly, it appears, your horse didn’t get the same running genes. Of interest, one of his own 1/2 sisters was also bred to K One King, so there’s a very near relative out there. You can see a catalog page of your horse’s family here: http://www.equineline.com/tdn/pedigr…83755&pid=4127

Also, a link to the sire. https://www.millenniumfarms.com/k-one-king/

[RHdobes563]

The pedigree page brought me to “Mr. Freeze”(?)

By “your horse” do you mean Bombonero, the gelding for sale or Arbor Gate, the Apalachee son I actually owned years ago?

Bombonero reminds me a bit of my “Khan” (barn name). Khan was 17 hands, this guy 16.2, and I REALLY like 16.0 or shorter. (I have been looking for old-fashioned Morgans, NOT TBs. :)) Despite my difficulties with Khan, I have a sentimental feeling about him—There WAS a mare by K One King for sale in Kansas or Missouri I saw, again on Craigslist, several months ago that I ‘mooned’ over. However, at that time I didn’t know of a shipping company that would come to my area of Michigan without it being VERY expensive for me. And again, I don’t really have the personality suited for most Thoroughbreds.

The same party that has Bombonero was sale has another OTTB gelding for sale that appeals to me more. Not quite 16 hands and PLAIN bay. I LOVE plain bays…

Thank you, SPRINGBORO, for the additional information you provided.

[malriis]

Just from perusing his page on equibase, I don’t see any glaring red flags. If he had a DNF, it would be listed instead of his placing. If you want, you can look at the chart for every race and it will tell you how he actually performed. Finding videos is also often not too difficult - many tracks post them on youtube or their own website.

The three month break isn’t unusual for most horses, but I feel like most of them aren’t raced as often. The fact that he raced so heavily means that there will be that much more wear and tear on him, but the flip side is that he must be durable if he is still sound.

Many OTTBs aren’t spooky at all. My partner has a 4 year old that has spooked twice in eight months. You could end up with one of those! In a sense, having trained and raced so much is a benefit because he will have been exposed to more stuff than most other horses will see in their lifetimes.

However, the thing about OTTBs is that there is a whole lot of them. It’s really not hard to find a smaller, sound, sane one, especially if you aren’t committed to a gender/color/chrome/10 mover. In fact the ones that are less than 16 hands tend to be cheaper.

[RHdobes563]

Actually, the only reason I would consider Bombonero is out of sentimentality. I am a MORGAN HORSE person, first and foremost. And not only that, but a Lippitt and/or 100% Foundation Morgan Horse person.

Despite what an OTTB can do, what I can find in one, the fact that most (around here) are going ‘for cheap’ ($2500 or less), I would rather pay more and get the Morgan I’m dreaming of.

Go figure. Well, I like Half-Arabians with Very Particular bloodlines, also.

The way things are going I will never find a horse that I am happy with…