Finding the Right Barn: Red Flags & Good Signs

[annapamela]

Hi there!

So I’ve just started riding, and it’s been really wonderful, and occasionally not-so-wonderful. I wanted to know if you folks could share any red flags that a given barn might be a toxic place (examples include: unprofessional management, questionable instruction, poorly trained horses, drama-ridden interpersonal attitudes). I was very naive and optimistic (horses are so wonderful! So the people who care for them and encounter them frequently must be wonderful!). I basically want to know what to look out for in the future. I wrote this whole long post about some unfortunate things I’ve encountered, but why ruminate over the past when I can prepare for the future.

So the main questions:

• When first finding a barn (whether for lessons or to lease/board a horse), what are some major red flags?
• On the flip side, are there good signs that the people are mostly honest and professional?

Thank you all!

[HPFarmette]

When I see a barn that is tidy, I feel there will be good attention to safety. Is there a clear boarding contract? The first place I boarded, luckily for me a good place, stated in the contract that “horses will be fed to the weight desired by the owner”. Wow what a difference from a place I later boarded where I got scolded for putting a flake in the horse’s stall before I left. Same place where the fat pig of an owner (yes I am still angry) was in the house napping while horses were out on dry lots with empty water troughs. Is the attitude towards helmets casual? What is life like for the lesson horses? Are the humans respectful and kind to one another? Who is allowed to turn out/bring in horses? Oh so many more things I can’t think of right now. I’m sure others will chime in…

[Texarkana]

Red flag: if the barn owner/manager/trainer voluntarily says the word “drama” at any point in the discussion, like–

“I don’t want any drama here.”

“This is a drama-free barn.”

“We don’t do drama.”

Along those same lines, if the barn owner/manager/trainer voluntarily feels the need to tell you details about past drama… RUN!

[equest]

I hopped between a few barns when I was new to riding and lessoning on school horses. Take your time and take lessons at multiple barns before settling on a trainer/barn that feels right. There is no law against taking lessons at more than one barn at a time.

In my experience, the only solid method to finding a reputable barn/trainer is word of mouth.
What is the trainer’s/barn’s reputation in the community? Does the barn have a high turnover rate? If the barn rarely has vacancy (the case with my trainer’s barn), that is probably a good sign.

You’re new to riding so I think the trial method of lessoning with a few trainers is the best option. Once you are showing, you can learn a lot by observation of a prospective trainer at a horse show. I am always noticing how other trainers conduct themselves at shows. I’ve witnessed some unpleasant interactions at shows, like one trainer body-shaming a teenage girl in earshot of others.

[annapamela]

@Texarkana

Along those same lines, if the barn owner/manager/trainer voluntarily feels the need to tell you details about past drama… RUN!

YES! This is -exactly- what happened. I wish I had been a little more paranoid at the time.

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

The first things that came to my mind: Do the horses look and seem happy, are they at a good weight? When you walk in the barn, what do you smell? Hint: it shouldn’t be urine.

Second thing, and probably more significant - do the horses have lots of accidents/injuries/escapes from pastures or paddocks or handlers? Is there always a recent story about a rider who fell off or was forcibly ejected or was kicked/bitten/trampled? How often do vets show up for emergency calls vs more routine visits? (not that anyone will be able to give you exact numbers, but relatively speaking).

I have been a boarder at five different places, and the hallmark of the worst of them was there was always a horse who had been injured from something preventable, always a rider/handler to whom something bad had recently happened, way more vet calls for emergencies than routine stuff. Inconsistent access to water for the pasture horses was a “feature” of that place too. Yes, where there are horses, there will always occasionally be injuries and incidents, but they really shouldn’t happen on a daily or weekly basis.

[Scribbler]

Horse care standards and interpersonal drama are two different things.

You could have a perfect horse care set up and still have lots of drama, especially if it’s a perfectionist competition barn full of anxious catty teenage girls.

You could have a more relaxed set up all around where no one gets too fussed about anything. And that could verge on negligent.

Horse care standards are easy enough to evaluate if you are an experienced horse person. Interpersonal drama can be harder to see until you are in the middle of it. Remember that the trainer is putting on their best face when you come as a prospective client. Having a 6th sense for cray cray is something you just develop over time.

That said, remember that every barn is a business, and the owner or trainer is unlikely to make a deal where you are the clear beneficiary. They need to make a profit off you. If they dont they will go out of business. This applies to lease and lesson and board rates and services, and also to work /ride barter exchanges. If BM is skimping n feeds or trainer overworking lesson horses or not giving you agreed on barter rifing time, money pressure is always at the root of it.

Finally, if you are leaving a place because if interpersonal drama, have a deep introspective look at your own role in it. It’s very rare that other people’s drama chases you out of a place if you are entirely outside of it. You might notice that Betty and Veronica aren’t talking this week, but you honestly won’t care.

If you left because of drama, that means either you started it, you participated in it unwisely, or you let yourself get too close to the drama queens. In future, resolve to keep a bit in reserve and not take on other people’s battles.

BTW I noticed, OP, that on your other post about horse terms you said you joined a barn. That was an interesting word because barns mostly arent clubs, they are small businesses. My barn is a club but it’s the only one like it in town! Most barns, you purchase services but you don’t really join. Keeping that in mind is important. It might help moderate expectations.

If you are helping with the horses it doesn’t mean you have any say in how they are managed. It’s like washing dishes in a restaurant to pay for your meal.

[RockingJ]

I tried lessons three different barns in the past two months, before settling on one. I’ve ridden in the past and got lucky at my last barn.

One, is the barn tidy and are the horses healthy? Being able to see ribs on multiple horses on the property… not a good thing.

I look for good communication, and is this a good fit for me - is barn owner/trainer/instructor someone I can work with? Are they organized, informative, and professional?

Listen to your gut - if something is really off, you likely won’t feel comfortable, even with limited experience. If something seems weird, ask about it.

The barns I’ve had the best luck with have given me a lot of information up front about the barn, lessons, lease options. They’re great at communicating availability and working out scheduling for lessons. They ask questions, especially during the first couple of lessons (do you feel comfortable? Do you have any concerns? Do you need to make any adjustments? Do you need to take a break?)

[MissAriel]

All of these things are easier to evaluate when you have more experience, so since you are new to riding - check out a bunch of places so you have a basis for comparison. Ask lots of questions. How do you decide how to pair horses and riders for lessons? What is your cancellation policy? Can I watch a lesson or two? What is a typical progression of a rider riding X times a week? They should also ask you about your previous experience and goals.

I look for indications of safety - are riders wearing helmets? Are people working with horses on the ground wearing helmets? If they have available helmets for riders, are they relatively new (there should be a tag with mfct date inside) and do they recommend you get your own. We were having a discussion about how different two instructors can be regarding wearing helmets for new riders. Instructor A says, “I know in the release you can waive the requirement to wear a helmet because you are over 18, but I have been around a long time and I and all my students wear helmets when mounted.” Instructor B says, “We have a helmet you can borrow if you want, but you don’t have to wear it if you don’t want to.”

Also are the helmets fitted correctly - covering the forehead, not perched on the back of the head?

Barn tidiness is a part of safety - are items laying around in walkways, or stored out of the way? Do the fences and stalls look sturdy and in good repair? Are hoses coiled and hung or laying around? Are there piles of manure all over?

If it is a boarding barn, are owner and emergency numbers posted on the stalls?

Look at the water - is it clean and fresh and in ample supply - keeping in mind if it is an automatic waterer it may appear as a fairly small bowl of water.

Are horses clean or covered in dirt, mud, stains and filth? Do they appear skinny, or a healthy weight?

Do they have barn rules - either posted or on paper? Do they appear to be followed?

Communication skills are great, but don’t always correlate to horsemanship. Only you can decide if not being able to get a hold of your instructor will be a deal breaker.

And always keep in mind - the right barn for you now, may not be the right barn for you some time down the road. I have switched barns due to moves, life changes, changing goals for the barn/trainer, switching disciplines - life happens.

[Raincityrider]

Here is my top 10 list:

1. Clean facilities- stalls cleaned daily, water buckets clean and full etc.
2. Good quality feed provided and fed to the owner’s specification. Observing horses in decent weight doesn’t do it for me as I have had issues with feed quantities changing with cost, availability and general level of give a damn.
3. Fences in good repair- do not need to be pretty or fancy but definitely need to be maintained and appropriate for horses.
4. Safe clutter free aisles and turnouts. Heaps of trunks and equipment in the aisle tells me something about their approach to safety
5. Knowledgeable BO and low staff turnover. Nothing can ruin your horses manners faster than bad daily handling.
6. Adequate pasture space and turnout time. Bonus for good mud management in my sopping climate
7. A required vaccination protocol, proof of current vaccinations to board.
8. A straight forward boarding contract that is fair to both parties.
9. Secure premises for both for my horse and my tack, with someone living on site
10. Everything else for me…good arena, somewhere to change, decent instruction opportunities…basically everything that doesn’t matter to Mr. Horse. He has to live there 24/7 so unless his needs are met it doesn’t really matter how nice the arena looks.

[Edre]

Depending on the size of the barn, you may find that they have yelp reviews. This is a great place to help develop your research. Take care to look at the section of reviews at the bottom of any given page (“other reviews that are not currently recommended”): business owners may try to contest, or otherwise bury unflattering reviews, so definitely check those as well. If there’s a theme in complaints in low reviews, make note and be sure to keep an eye out for them when you visit. Likewise, identify things reviews tend to identify as done well - corroborate that with your own observation, if possible.

Online research aside, one of the biggest indications I’ve been able to find for professionals that are rewarding and easy to work with, is communication. Do they answer your questions? Do they respond to messages in a timely manner (within reason)? Are they forthcoming with information? A professional that gets huffy or sneers off a question they feel is amateurish or silly isn’t one that I want to work with. Likewise, a professional who can’t answer the questions I’m asking is also not one I want to work with.

From a professionalism aspect, those are key to me.

From a horse keeping aspect, a lot of what I consider dealbreakers are pretty self evident. You can look at feet and see if they’re in decent condition (even if they’re at the tail end of a cycle, feet that are maintained look different from those that aren’t). Are stalls cleaned properly, or if you scuff in the middle of a stall, is there old bedding that smells of ammonia that hasn’t been removed? Are water buckets ever empty (and is this a frequent occurrence)? Arena maintenance - how dusty is it? Is there a hard track on the rail? All of these things can be observed, but I’ve also found that asking (good) professionals about these things will generate in depth, informed responses that actually answer my questions.

And then of course, make sure what they “say” they do lines up to what they “actually” do. It’s all very well and good if a website (or person) says they’re out from 8-5 daily, but if you drop in to take a barn tour at 9 and horses are in - what gives? Likewise, “We feed lunch outside,” except horses are never seen getting hay/grain outside? Assess what is and isn’t happening. Some barns may over-promise and under-deliver.

[Mango20]

I haven’t been barn shopping for many years, but I think a good indicator is to ask for the barn rules on your first visit. You can tell a lot from what response you get. Barn rules posted and/or handy = good. A wishy-washy answer off the top of their head is bad. A super long list of rules with some you might find a bit ridiculous might be a red flag that the trainer is very controlling and wants every client to follow them blindly. I would feel best with a posted set of barn rules that focus on safety and other reasonable rules.

If I were shopping for a lesson barn, I’d ask how many lessons each horse does per day, and how many riders are in each group lesson (also maybe how many lessons may be going on in the ring at one time). I base that on a popular lesson barn near me, who will often have two lessons going on at once in their indoor, with 6-8 riders in each. I, and one the instructors I know, think this is a dangerous practice. At best, it’s not worth the money the students pay.

As the person above me said - right barn, right time. I will still recommend the lesson barn I mentioned to people whose kids want to start taking lessons. Their instructors are knowledgeable, the horses are generally good, and other than the overcrowding in bad weather, they follow all the rules of good safety. However, I strongly believe it is a barn a kid will grow out of if they stick with it (and certainly if they end up with their own horse).

[annapamela]

Thanks so much for all the helpful information!

@Texarkana

Along those same lines, if the barn owner/manager/trainer voluntarily feels the need to tell you details about past drama… RUN!

Yes, this is exactly what happened! I wish I had been more paranoid at the onset.

I want to summarize actual helpful advice people gave that I will heed for the future:

• Asking how many lessons each horse has per day (what would you all consider a good number for this?)
• Clear-cut rules and boarding contracts are good things to look for
• For cleanliness, checking the horses’ water, grooming, and the barn smell
• For interpersonal management, asking about how long the employees have been there, to avoid barns with high turnover

@HPFarmette: “Who is allowed to turn out/bring in horses?”

This is such an interesting question! Can I ask what you learn at the barn from knowing this?

Thank you all!

[Scribbler]

@annapamela

Thanks so much for all the helpful information!

Yes, this is exactly what happened! I wish I had been more paranoid at the onset.

I want to summarize actual helpful advice people gave that I will heed for the future:

• Asking how many lessons each horse has per day (what would you all consider a good number for this?)
• Clear-cut rules and boarding contracts are good things to look for
• For cleanliness, checking the horses’ water, grooming, and the barn smell
• For interpersonal management, asking about how long the employees have been there, to avoid barns with high turnover

@HPFarmette: “Who is allowed to turn out/bring in horses?”

This is such an interesting question! Can I ask what you learn at the barn from knowing this?

Thank you all!

Whether the barn has safety basics in mind. Particularly if it is your horse. Do you want it led in and out by a kind, competent adult pro who will effortlessly instill good manners? Or by the BM drunk husband who will shank the horses and scream at them? Or by a bunch of tweens in flip-flops who are being constantly run over?

We get a number of posts here from kids saying “I have to go catch a lesson horse in a field and the other horses attack me” or “he runs away” or “he pulls away and runs over me.” Or even: how do I discipline the stallion that is biting and striking me?

The answer is, you don’t. You get the trainer to do horse handling that’s over your skill set.

[Scribbler]

If you are trying to do this on the cheap and trade work for rides you will most likely end up at barns that are run less crisply, earn less revenue, and are more desperate for free labor and even friends. These are the trainers that have an excuse for everything, over promise, under deliver, and have alienated many former clients and suppliers and peers etc.

Sometimes these people are very very charming at first. They get by charming and talking their way out of trouble and meeting new people.

[annapamela]

@Scribbl

[annapamela]

@Scribbler You are answering all of these questions in bad faith, and assuming a lot about my situation. Please stop derailing what could be a meaningful topic for new riders.

[Scribbler]

@annapamela

@Scribbler You are answering all of these questions in bad faith, and assuming a lot about my situation. Please stop derailing what could be a meaningful topic for new riders.

Sorry, apologies if I offended. If it doesn’t apply to you, don’t take it personally. The “you” here should be read as “one” which is an excellent neuter pronoun but generally sounds too formal for casual chat. I did not mean to imply that this was your situation only that if someone was in that situation, they ran those risks.

I don’t see how what I’m saying is in bad faith, though. Or how it will harm another new rider. They can either take the advice or not as they see fit.

And honestly interpersonal conflicts derail more barn experiences IME than straight care issues, and are often at the heart of such issues. You rarely get significant gaps in care without there being something off about the BM personal situation.

I hang out at the low end of nice horses and have seen the kind of thing I refer to play out several times.

COTH threads tend to wander a bit, and folks pitch in from all different directions. The OP often loses control of the direction of a post. If you get information that seems wrong to your situation, ignore.

[Alittledownhill]

If you are just starting, one important factor may be how busy things are during the time you want to ride. It’s intimidating to be learning to steer at the trot while 7 other people are jumping in the same ring.

I honestly wouldn’t stick around any barn where I heard people saying any negative things about each other. I know that seems like a high standard given the horror stories on here, but both of the barns where I’ve been a client have had an unspoken rule that you just didn’t complain or gossip. Ever. Period. If you have a problem, take it to the barn owner or talk to the person directly. Instructors talking to other instructors about students, in particular, would be a red flag. I’m just too neurotic for it (would always be wondering what people were saying about me when I wasn’t there) and riding is supposed to be the way I calm myself down.

Helmets everywhere. Appropriate footwear everywhere. Staff that are actually working. Instructors looking at their phones during lessons is a big red flag.

[retiredhorse]

@annapamela

@HPFarmette: “Who is allowed to turn out/bring in horses?”

This is such an interesting question! Can I ask what you learn at the barn from knowing this?

-who is handling the horses (may be more important if you own a horse)

-if they have enough staff

-if the barn expects you/clients/students to be able to catch horse and bring it in for lessons

-if they let you work off lessons/board in exchange for turn in/out (or other barn chores). (I think @Scribbler makes a good point about some situations, where this does not go well, or BO is cutting corners. But I have also seen a barn where this worked. I think because it was not so much a barter system, but a set hourly rate that you got taken off board (like if you worked 4 hours on Saturday, at $10/hour, you got $40 off your board). Which seems more upfront/less messy than an open-ended/unspecified amount of work in exchange for a lesson.)