Firming new arena footing - What am I missing....

[ellisrun]

Hi Guys -

Another new arena question. So ring (outdoor arena 100x200) is roughly three months old - compacted fill dirt, compacted ABC, compacted screenings, 2 inch of Angular/C33 sand. All layers were rolled, laser leveled, rained on multiple times - we did it right - straight out of the USDF underfoot guide.

I have had decent amounts of rain, ride in random patterns and drag every day in a different pattern (have slowed my drag speed, gotten a good drag, no waves, seems level as I can still see the crown of the arena). Ring is draining great when it rains, no pooling. Problem is that top layer of sand is not firm at all, the first ride is OK, and then it feels like the sand is falling out from under the horse as we continue our ride. I only have two horses at home, so I feel like I should be able to ride both before the footing craps out.

Both contractor and I are as knowledgeable as we can be for not being ring professionals but not sure what to do next. Options as I see it:

1. Remove some sand. Even though I only have 2 inches, it’s still too deep.

2. Additive - considering a fiber to help the sand bind. But wouldn’t I need water? Long term this seems like opening a can of worms.

3. Adding a water system - this would be good regardless, but will this help firm sand? With all the afternoon showers I’ve have, It hasn’t helped packing. I tried watering yesterday and maybe it’s to blessed hot because I couldn’t tell.

4. He mentioned adding concrete sand as a binder

Help please! I hate soft/deep footing with a passion and it is driving me bonkers. Luckily I have some other riding options but this arena build was a painstaking process (as most of you know) and it’s driving me nuts

TIA!!

[SugarCubes]

Im glad you asked this! My brand new ring feels the same way! It’s perfect right after I drag it, but like yours, feels too slippery/deep once I’ve ridden in it. I’m going to give it more time to settle and if it still feels the same I plan on mixing some stone dust into the sand to give it a little more “grip”. I’ll be interested to see what replies you get since I’m in the same boat as you! Congrats on your new ring, btw

[dressagegirl123]

Yes, water will generally firm up sand, but it takes a ton of it. But you must water sand. Leaving it dry will make it like walking on the beach–do you want to walk on the dry sand, or the firmer wet sand?
Fiber will help firm up the sand immensely, but, you still have to water. A bit less than without fiber, in my experience, but all footing needs water.
If you only have in 2" of sand, and you take some out, you will be carving into your base any time a horse makes a quick move (shying, etc.). Disaster. Ask me how I know!
Good luck with it. You’re on the right track. Water water water. Stone dust will deaden the footing.

[ellisrun]

[QUOTE=dressagegirl123;8768828]
Yes, water will generally firm up sand, but it takes a ton of it. But you must water sand. Leaving it dry will make it like walking on the beach–do you want to walk on the dry sand, or the firmer wet sand?
Fiber will help firm up the sand immensely, but, you still have to water. A bit less than without fiber, in my experience, but all footing needs water.
If you only have in 2" of sand, and you take some out, you will be carving into your base any time a horse makes a quick move (shying, etc.). Disaster. Ask me how I know!
Good luck with it. You’re on the right track. Water water water. Stone dust will deaden the footing.[/QUOTE]

Thank you! How much agua aka water we talking about here - like water for an hour or half a day? Sorry for the obvious question - but I have no idea

[Pocket_Pony]

I’d turn on the water before I tack up and turn it off when I get to the arena and the timing is perfect.

[OTTBs]

When I watered my arena with a sprinkler, I thought 20 minutes in each spot seemed to wet it pretty well.

[candico]

It would also depend on your water pressure. I have automatic timers that go on in the morning. Each section of two to three sprinkler heads goes for 4-5 minutes most of the year and 10 at most during the summer. But yes, wet sand absolutely binds better than dry. Think of what it takes to build a sand castle.

[spacehorse]

I am also having the same issue. I have been removing sand. I have a stone dust base and there are areas where I have taken so much sand when I drag I am mixing base in. Those areas feel the best to me since they are so much more firm.

I am hoping long term the base holds up. My builder just put way too much sand on. Watering mine prior to use is not an option.

Ideally I would like to get it to about 1" of sand and possibly add some stone dust to firm it up eventually, if it needs it.

[rb5007]

We had a similar issue after we added sand a month ago. We used HydroKeep for about $1500. It hasn’t fully solved the problem but has helped a lot, and it was cheap and easy to apply. We can’t water so this helps hold the rainwater and keeps down dust. We still drag every day but the ring holds up well for 6-8 rides per day. Not sure yet how long it will last.

[ellisrun]

Is the HydroKeep from Footing Solutions? I have been looking at that as well. I am on well water, pressure sucks…

[swgarasu]

Maybe you are dragging too often? What if you let it sit for a few days in between? Every time you drag you are going to lose moisture and you are going to add air.

[dressagegirl123]

My sprinklers go off for 10 minutes at night, and again at noon. But, it depends entirely on your water pressure, sun and wind. I’m in Florida

[ellisrun]

Middle of NC - pretty hot, and humid but not as bad as FL:) This winter it literally rained every day, this summer - dry as a bone! I think I’d have to keep the sprinklers on for at least an hour or two with my well water pressure to make a dent.

[judybigredpony]

I don t water my sand it would take way to much water on a daily bases…But I will share a tip my ring builder advised…suck it up and ride on the stone dust base for 1’year, and we did. Then recrowned and added the sand…Best decision ever…ring drains perfectly even after monsoons, we have very little problems with a track along perimeter. While your base was packed and rolled it really takes a year to settle. We only think of watering because of dust when it’s super hot n dry for a few days.

[Pocket_Pony]

Yikes - not sure I’d want to water my arena with well water. Do you have any irrigation ditch that feeds your property such that you can pipe water to the arena? How deep is your well and what is the production?

[Lord_Helpus]

First problem: You went by the USDF guidelines. So did I over 10 years ago… I hated that ring from day 1 until I sold that farm.

The best thing you can do now is to get a footing specialist in for a consult. Take it from me. Believe me. I have been there. Have the T shirt.

I waited too long and the sand had sunk/lower levels had come up, until the ring was irretrievable.

Only then did I call in a consultant. It was the best/worst $700 I had spent.

Live and learn;

1 DO NOT FOLLOW THE USDF MODEL
2 Even if you want to do it yourself, spend $1000 and get an expert consultation right at the beginning.

OP: It is probably not too late for you. People (including me) on COTH are well meaning, but you cannot replace a footing expert’s knowledge with Internet advice.

[ellisrun]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8775544]
First problem: You went by the USDF guidelines. So did I over 10 years ago… I hated that ring from day 1 until I sold that farm.

The best thing you can do now is to get a footing specialist in for a consult. Take it from me. Believe me. I have been there. Have the T shirt.

I waited too long and the sand had sunk/lower levels had come up, until the ring was irretrievable.

Only then did I call in a consultant. It was the best/worst $700 I had spent.

Live and learn;

1 DO NOT FOLLOW THE USDF MODEL
2 Even if you want to do it yourself, spend $1000 and get an expert consultation right at the beginning.

OP: It is probably not too late for you. People (including me) on COTH are well meaning, but you cannot replace a footing expert’s knowledge with Internet advice.[/QUOTE]

I’m confident my base is good. It’s just the footing. So I called all the big arena guys yesterday and guess what - got 5 different answers Of course all of their solutions are ridiculously priced (again - just two horses, back yard barn, 10 rides a week). So I placed a call to a local show grounds to pick there brain. Current plan is to take the sand off and see what’s cooking