First cart advice

[fledermaus]

Newcomer to driving. I have a 12.2 welsh pony (a freebie rescue) and yes, an experienced driving trainer to help me, and am looking to buy a cart for her. I can see that I can get a used metal easy entry cart for between $150 and $350 off craigslist, or a new one probably made in China off ebay for around $700. What I’m wondering is if I should plunk down better money for a solid safe cart or not? I plan to drive on gravel back roads, farm roads, pasture, dirt roads, snowmobile tracks, not much arena and not much flat either. Don’t know if one of these “entry-level” carts will hold up and I’d hate to have one fail with me in it.

Would like advice about brands and makers to stay away from and to look for, and what kind of wheels, springs etc. are worth pursuing/avoiding.

[cayuse]

Some of the metal ones have a bad reputation of having metal weakness and I have seen a metal cart bend badly in an incident. It was one of the ones with a black and maroon seat, I believe marketed by “Tough-1”. That being said, I have a newer metal cart from Kingston (I forget.the exact name of the place but if you search Kingston carts it will pop up) and it is great. I did get the heavier tires/wheels for it. Bicycle tires are only good for ring work and won’t hold up. I have use my cart on fairly rough ground and given it a bit of abuse and it is holding up just fine. And both my minis seem comfortable pulling it.
In a perfect world, I would love a new cart with all the bells and whistles, but $ is a consideration and my cart is more than adequate.

Do.you have pictures of the new pony :)?

[fledermaus]

Kingston Saddlery. They are an ebay seller. I have been looking at those.

[fledermaus]

Kingston has solid tires, 18" motorcycle tires, and 23" motorcycle tires as options, as well as straight or curved shafts. What would be the advantages and disadvantages of these?

[2DogsFarm]

I have one of the standard EZ-Entry black metal carts - NOT with the maroon seat as @cayuse describes.
Got it at auction for $330 - mini-sized for my 34" guy.
It has 20" pneumatic motorcycle tires & has held up for several 5mi+ drives with my club, mostly on turf.
I have driven it on asphalt roads around my farm & the tires give it a softer ride than my wood show cart that has wood wheels & hard rubber tires.
Convenient, as I can load it myself onto my trailer w/no ramp.

That said, I am currently looking to replace the pneumatics with no-flats since my last drive got a flat - not on the drive, but when I went to load for the next one.
Going to run me anywhere from ~$150 for standard wire-spoked wheels to $300+ for the sturdier-spoked marathon-type wheels.
If I was buying new I’d look at this one:

http://www.gscart.com/atcart.htm

If you plan on showing anytime in the future the wire cart may or may not be allowed in classes.
Not for ADS (rated) shows unless they offer a Utility Vehicle class & even then may need approval.

[CERT]

Kingston Saddlery carts are an okay breaking cart. They have ZERO suspension for horse or human. Those little springs under the seat do nothing for you. The GS Carts appear to be a little better built than the Kingston Saddlery, but I haven’t seen one in person.

With trail driving I would spend money on something sturdy with a good suspension. I would not take a second look at anything with thin spokes. Pneumatic tires do soften the ride, however you risk flats unless you inject foam into them and then they aren’t much more than a hard rubber tire. I personally go for hard rubber as I live in a place where all plants are pokey (desert).

I would look at Patty’s Pony Place (Canadian) and Ahonen Carriage Works (USA). Both offer a type of independent suspension system on their carts, which looks pretty cool. I haven’t driven either one personally, but have heard really good things about them, plus the pricepoint is pretty good for what you get.

[SLW]

@2DogsFarm

I have one of the standard EZ-Entry black metal carts - NOT with the maroon seat as @cayuse
If you plan on showing anytime in the future the wire cart may or may not be allowed in classes.
Not for ADS (rated) shows unless they offer a Utility Vehicle class & even then may need approval.

Metal carts are allowed in ADS shows. I just competed in one on Saturday in my metal Frey cart and there were many other entries using varieties of metal carts & carriages. If you meant wire/bicycle wheels that would be correct- those are not allowed however metal wheels are allowed. Does that make sense??

[2DogsFarm]

@SLW

Metal carts are allowed in ADS shows. I just competed in one on Saturday in my metal Frey cart and there were many other entries using varieties of metal carts & carriages. If you meant wire/bicycle wheels that would be correct- those are not allowed however metal wheels are allowed. Does that make sense??

:yes:
TX, @SLW you said what I meant :uhoh:​​​​​​​

[cayuse]

I wasn’t going to post about my experience with Patti’s Pony Place but I see them recommended sometimes. My one transaction with them was not good. They are not the easiest to do business with. A year ago I ordered a shaft set for a sled he second week in December. I was promised it by the first or second week in Jan. I received it the end of March. If I had been told it would be three months, I would’ve been OK with it, but the complete lack of communication was irritating. Once the order was placed, communication went silent. Also be sure to get everything in writing when you place the order.
That was just my experience and YMMV.
The shafts themselves are OK. Not the best but not the worst in quality.

[TwinCity]

We started with a import basic cart, then moved to Frey Sprint and Rebel and now have a Kutzman microfox for our mini pair. Nothing wrong with the import to start out with…and the Frey’s and Kutzman are amazing - we compete in CDE’s with them. In my experience I would stay far, far away from home built - stick with name brand. If you do go with home builts (or someone hanging their shingle as a cart manufacturer) and the builders claim their equipment is perfect for this and that - ask for proof. If they claim “CDE ready” then ask them how many CDE’s that model has been in. Has the design been proven for what you are intending to use it for? Talk with everybody who has had experience with them.

[goodhors]

The difference with using metal carts/carriages, is in the wheels, hard rubber or air filled tires. There are limitations to using the air filled tires and wire spoked wheels, which are not always bicycle spoked wheels. Air filled tires are only acceptable at Training level for CDE competitions.

Pleasure Driving shows, approved or not, have their own Rules regarding wire spokes, air filled tires. With the advent of Motorcycle tires that are air filled, yet have metal spokes in their wheels, not wire, the Rules have changed again in some areas. Always best to read the Rules, learn what is acceptable.

[fledermaus]

This is all very useful!
Of course, I’ve never yet held driving reins nor has my pony ever been put between shafts so it’s all dang theoretical, too. I’m getting a driving lesson (with a trained horse of course) next week. Pippa’s starting with long lines now.

I seriously do not know how people can do this without a teacher. Seems harder than riding!

[kris0227]

@fledermaus

Kingston has solid tires, 18" motorcycle tires, and 23" motorcycle tires as options, as well as straight or curved shafts. What would be the advantages and disadvantages of these?

I cannot speak to the current quality of Kingston, however, I have a full horse sized Kingston from several years ago and compared to my amish made easy entry, it’s a piece of junk. It didn’t see a lot of use before the horse went lame and was always stored indoors, yet is rusted horribly, the two piece shafts (curved) never stay straight, they turn anytime I use it no matter how tight the bolts are and I had to replace the bolts as they broke. Not to mention, these carts have nothing in the way of suspension.

My mini cart is from Fairview Country Sales in Millersburg, Ohio. It is heads and tails nicer than the Kingston and is American made. They have several options for suspensions (leaf springs, torsion axels) and wheels as well. My mini cart was just under $800 a couple of years ago, so they are a little more than Kingston, but the quality is worth it in my opinion.

[2DogsFarm]

@fledermaus

I seriously do not know how people can do this without a teacher. Seems harder than riding!

:lol:
Yup. I cringe every time I hear somebody say “When I can no longer ride, I’ll drive”
If only it were that easy…
My first driving lesson I got out of the carriage & my legs were shaking… from applying them to the non-existent-to-me sides of the pony in the shafts :eek:

& just like learning to ride correctly - eyes on the ground (or in the seat next to you) make a World of difference!
I have gotten a ton of useful tips from fellow Carriage Club members with decades of driving experience.

ETA: I have seen - upclose & personal - @kris0227 's cart & it is a lovely piece of safe equipment :encouragement:

[DMK]

This may be a bit late to the game given the nature of fb and whether you could actually find it again, but I’m pretty sure I saw a kingston VSE cart which had been upgraded to pony palace suspension that may be worth looking at.

Update - I found it!! - CDE & Pleasure Driving Buy, Sell, & Learn fb page, s/b in the first few listings)

[fledermaus]

@DMK

This may be a bit late to the game given the nature of fb and whether you could actually find it again, but I’m pretty sure I saw a kingston VSE cart which had been upgraded to pony palace suspension that may be worth looking at.

Update - I found it!! - CDE & Pleasure Driving Buy, Sell, & Learn fb page, s/b in the first few listings)

Found the group, but didn’t find this listing.

[cayuse]

Kris0027, the problem you have with your Kingston cart shafts turning is the exact same problem I have with the shafts from Patti’s Pony Place. The will not stay straight no matter what we do to them, I finally gave up using them because of this. I wonder if this is a problem with curved shafts in general. Anybody know? Any ideas how to fix the issue?

[DMK]

Hopefully this will work

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1668747513393474/permalink/2141242772810610/

[SLW]

When I was looking for a metal cart 4 years ago a friend who owned a Kingston steered me away from that and to Fairview Country Supply carts of which she also owned one of those. FCS is an Amish owned company in Ohio and I’ve been pleased with the cart I purchased from them for my 12.2 donkey. Because FCS use their carts there are adjustments available aftermarket that I did not see elsewhere. You can get wooden wherels or no flat wire wheels. Blocks to raise the basket and there is some adjustability with the shafts & seat. I don’t recall what I paid for the cart but you can find the store’s phone number online and they will mail you a catalog.

Good of luck in your search!!

[TwinCity]

Generally the after market modifications, well, suck. Do all suck? No, but generally. I was warned by engineer friends not to add on suspension…as soon as you drill into the frame you add a point of weakness, the frame was designed for a different suspension (not the add on) , and water can get in etc. so I personally wouldn’t go for it. Some have and they are happy. You can tell I’m not a big fan of the “it was a nice thought, but actually didn’t work” backyard cart manufacturers…lol.