First Rated Show -- Questions

[joiedevie99]

The Rider and Owner are obvious. Trainer is the person responsible for the care of the horse while on the showgrounds. Having a trainer is mandatory, because someone must be responsible for a horse (even if it is the same as the owner and rider). Coach is optional. Coach is someone who advises or instructs the rider on the showgrounds.

There was a kerfluffle years ago because hunte rbarns were having their grooms take turns signing as trainer so that the actual trainers wouldn’t be implicated if their horses failed drug tests.

[skydy]

@Demerara_Stables

@atr

I consider myself entirely responsible for my horse at shows.

Do you have a coach though, or is it just you? I would be someone’s coach but not at all responsible for their horse.

As joiedevie99 said , to be a coach at a USEF show you have to be an active USEF member.

GR202-1 To be eligible to participate as a rider, driver, handler, vaulter, longeur, owner, lessee, agent, coach, or trainer at Federation Licensed Competitions, persons must be Members of the Federation as provided in Bylaw 212.
No organization, other than the Federation and its Recognized Breed and Discipline Affiliates, may require mandatory membership or a non-member fee as a condition of participation in a Federation Licensed Competition. (See GR1210.12 for further information regarding the collection of mandatory participation fees
at Federation Licensed competitions).

GR202-7 To be eligible to compete at Federation Licensed Competitions, coaches, trainers, and legal guardians signing as coaches or trainers on behalf of their minors must be Senior Active Members in good standing, as defined herein.

Bylaw 211 - Designation
Members consist of those persons who have joined the Federation in one or more of the membership categories as provided in the Rules. All members in good standing, except Non-Competing Members, and Individual Group Members,shall be eligible to participate in all classes and levels at Federation Licensed Competitions as provided in Bylaw 203.** Each member will be required upon joining or renewing to designate a primary Breed/Discipline affiliation within the Federation
(and may designate one or more secondary Breed/Discipline affiliation for informational purposes only). The record datefor designations shall be November 30, with the primary designations of all Senior Active Members made since December 1 of the preceding year to be counted. A Senior Active Member will be deemed to continue their primary and secondary affiliation designations unless prior to the record date such Senior Active Member notifies the Federation in writing of a change

If you want to participate in USEF rated shows you have to join USEF, take the Safe Sport training etc…

[skydy]

If any random person could sign as trainer or coach, for whatever reason they don’t want to be subject or held accountable to follow USEF rules, USEF would be in violation of the Safe Sport law and USEF must abide by that law, as well as keep trainers and coaches responsible for following other USEF rules.

If you are coaching a dressage rider who is showing at USEF shows, you owe it to them to be honest that you are not a member of USEF and are unable to coach them at rated shows under USEF rules.

[Jump314]

I wonder how many people actually list someone as coach. It seems like extra trouble to get another person’s signature.

[skydy]

A rider would be better off to list themselves as coach than to have someone who isn’t a member of USEF sign. However if someone who is not a USEF member is coaching them, without signing at a rated show, they are cheating and can easily be found out.

No ethical person would put their “student” in that position.

[rothmpp]

I do believe it is worth repeating at this point -

You DON’T have to have a coach signature. If you are having someone coach you at a rated show you SHOULD have them sign but they MUST be members or pay the non-member fee.

You’re not really your own coach for purposes of signatures on the entry form.

That being said, the coach signature is not policed at shows that I go to - the manager & TD are not going around looking to see who is coaching which rider in the warm-up ring and checking to make sure that person is properly listed and signed on every rider’s waivers.

[skydy]

Yes, you can probably cheat and get away with it, but it’s a stupid risk.

[rothmpp]

Oh, I don’t disagree, but it’s just what I’ve observed.

[Zevida]

@rothmpp

That being said, the coach signature is not policed at shows that I go to - the manager & TD are not going around looking to see who is coaching which rider in the warm-up ring and checking to make sure that person is properly listed and signed on every rider’s waivers.

I had a show secretary warn me that a TD was checking to see if coaches were correctly on forms and fining people at a recent show. I had left my coach off and after that am now correctly ensuring she’s always on my form. It sounds like they are taking this more seriously recently.

[Badger]

Seriously? If a coach sig is not required, how can a person be in violation and fined for not having one? I usually leave it blank so want to understand this piece.

[SillyHorse]

@Zevida

I had a show secretary warn me that a TD was checking to see if coaches were correctly on forms and fining people at a recent show.

That’s bizarre. As @Badger said, coach is not required. Maybe the TD meant trainer?

[MHM]

I’ve never heard of an official at a show who could arbitrarily decide to charge a fine on the spot over paperwork.

[rothmpp]

Yeah, that doesn’t sound right. the TD can report violations to USEF, but USEF are the ones who hand down and enforce fines. At least that is the experience I’ve had at shows, both as a part of show management and as a competitor.

At most shows I have been at, it would be a full time job to actively observe warm up for coaches, identify the riders they are attached to, then go back to the office and check waiver forms. If a TD is doing this, they are not doing the part of their job that is most important, actually making sure welfare rules are being adhered to, especially as coaches are not required.

[joiedevie99]

@Badger

Seriously? If a coach sig is not required, how can a person be in violation and fined for not having one? I usually leave it blank so want to understand this piece.

This issue is when you do have a coach, but that person didn’t sign the waiver/release forms to be allowed to be on the grounds. I have also literally never seen it enforced. If you are actually showing without someone on the ground warming you up, then there is no issue with leaving it blank.

That said, I don’t think it would be incredibly hard to do as some shows. For example, at the show I was at this weekend most coaches (wearing headsets) would walk over to the steward to check them into warm-up, confirm which ring they were in, etc. The steward could pretty easily ask for the coach’s name, jot it down next to the number the coach inquired on behalf of, and turn it in to the office on breaks to be checked against paperwork. I just don’t think anyone cares enough to do it.

[clanter]

@Badger

I usually leave it blank so want to understand this piece.

Might want to put “N/A” on that line which is a common abbreviation that stands for “not applicable” or just write in not applicable. Mainly just make sure some one does not insert something that is not correct.

I look at these forms as a contract which I never leave a blank space those are marked not applicable or a blank page unless it is marked intentional blank.

[ParadoxFarm]

Thanks, all, for the helpful information! I signed up.

[rothmpp]

@joiedevie99

The steward could pretty easily ask for the coach’s name, jot it down next to the number the coach inquired on behalf of, and turn it in to the office on breaks to be checked against paperwork. I just don’t think anyone cares enough to do it.

I’m going to argue a bit - that is not the ring steward’s job - to police the waivers. It can be hard enough for a ring steward to keep the rings running on time and in order. That is their job - and a equipment check after the ride.

From someone who has worked as a show secretary for years - it is nearly impossible to get people back to the show office after they’ve got their bridle numbers. So the show secretary spends days chasing down signatures that are not required.

If the USEF wants that field filled out without fail - they need to make it a required signature.

@joiedevie99

This issue is when you do have a coach, but that person didn’t sign the waiver/release forms to be allowed to be on the grounds. I have also literally never seen it enforced. If you are actually showing without someone on the ground warming you up, then there is no issue with leaving it blank.

Also - since there is no requirement for spectators to sign waivers, it would present yet another challenge if a trainer is running in to school you for 30 minutes before your ride and then taking off immediately to go back to home training clients.

I get that there are people skirting the rules, but adding the coach as a requirement - even if you can sign for yourself - makes dressage seem yet more elitist.

[Snow_Mass]

Last summer, TDs were issuing yellow cards to coaches that were actively coaching at USEF licensed dressage shows but not listed as the coach on entry and releases. The USEF pushed the TD’s to keep every competitor compliant. Once word got out, entries were arriving at shows much more complete.
The coach needs to be a current member of USEF and have their Safesport up to date.

On-line entry software are designed to note missing signatures and membership numbers. Helpful for follow up emails to competitors before they check-in at the show office. Many professional show secretaries have fees associated with incomplete entries which includes missing signatures.

The USEF requires signed releases from show officials and volunteers. The GMO that recognizes our shows requires a signed release from the volunteers too.
TD’s used to sit in show offices reviewing every paper entry for signatures. Now reviews are done electronically.

[trubandloki]

@joiedevie99

That said, I don’t think it would be incredibly hard to do as some shows. For example, at the show I was at this weekend most coaches (wearing headsets) would walk over to the steward to check them into warm-up, confirm which ring they were in, etc. The steward could pretty easily ask for the coach’s name, jot it down next to the number the coach inquired on behalf of, and turn it in to the office on breaks to be checked against paperwork. I just don’t think anyone cares enough to do it.

To go with all the great points made by rothmpp above, I have the question of - how does the steward know that the person asking is a coach and not just Mom or Sister, or best friend who came over to check the ring and order of go and if things are on time, while the rider is busy warming themselves up?
How is the ring steward supposed to keep track of all that?

[joiedevie99]

@rothmpp

I’m going to argue a bit - that is not the ring steward’s job - to police the waivers.

@rothmpp

I get that there are people skirting the rules, but adding the coach as a requirement - even if you can sign for yourself - makes dressage seem yet more elitist.

I agree with everything you said! I don’t think coach should be a required field, and I don’t think we have the resources to enforce it.

I was merely musing on the post about the TD doing it, and thinking about how the stewards at most shows I go to know nearly every trainer there by sight (but not all TDs do), and could take some notes with relative ease (not should).