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First time buyer with a budget! (repost)

So this is my first time considering buying a horse of my own and I am having a bit of trouble.:confused: Right now I’m looking for a young warmblood hunter prospect, something no older than 4 years to anything as young as a yearling, and it does not need to be under saddle. My budget right now is 10,000, and I am finding it hard to find quality because I refuse to pay over that amount for something that isn’t even backed.
I am not TOO picky but several factors of the horse do matter to me, and I would like it to come from some proven hunter background.
At this point the stallion doesn’t matter as much to me, but these are the stallions I do really like and would love if I could have a baby from them: Escapade, Redwine, Popeye K, Balta Czar, and Aloha.
I feel like I have looked online EVERYWHERE and have come up blank, and there isn’t much around me. I’m located on the East Coast and would love if anyone could guide me to where I can find anything. Any advice or words of wisdom would be appreciated! :o

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A little math review_
Popeye K stud fee - $2600
Vet fees for breeding $500
Keeping mare for 11+ months - $2500 if you own your own pasture
Foaling out $250
Depreciation of mare while in foal (if $10, 000 horse) - $1428
Raising a foal to age 4 would have to cost less than $700 a year to make this a break even for the breeder.
Maybe an OTTB with good hunter movement would work better for your budget.

Buy in utero. 10k will get you the most quality if you buy now for the upping foal crop.

I agree, in-utero would be the way to go. But even there don’t be surprised to find in-utero foals above the $10,000 price line especially for a Popeye K to make up for the higher stud fee.

I agree with the above posters. Quality costs… and I know that it’s painful, because I just started a sales barn, so I’m on the buying and selling end! You are lucky, because it’s a great time of year to buy in that breeders need to make room for new foals. The nice babies are tough. I know it seems like the weanlings should be cheap, but the person who asked you to review their math was right. I am breeding my Jupiter mare Jade to Sir Caletto in April. Added to the expense, there’s the immeasurable fact that she won’t be able to show next summer. She’s technically my daughter’s horse now and I’m transitioning to jumpers, but and it’s not like I can go pick up another horse like that anywhere. And, there’s always a the risk that something could happen to a mare that’s a member of our family (please no). When you are trying to breed something really special, it can be a sacrifice. The foal’s costs reflects that as well, and I think people don’t have a problem getting a good price for the best babies, especially out of proven performance mares. What about doing an in-utero program where they raise the baby for you as a package deal? If you are wanting the next world beater, that’s a great way to experience the whole thing.

Since you have listed nothing but blingy stallions on your wish list, the assumption is that you want something with a lot of chrome. Bling seems to be all the rage in the hunter ring these days – everyone and their brother wants to trot into the ring on a horse with blaze and four whites (guess they think the judges will be so dazzled by the chrome, they won’t see anything else - including “problems”). However, because bling is so in demand, it affects prices (the old “law of supply and demand”). So you are already running into problems with your budget.

You also say you want something from a proven hunter background. And of the sires you name, one or two are proven hunter performance horses at decent levels (one very proven at the top), but the rest are proven only at lower levels (and some have rather mediocre records even at low levels). One is pretty proven not only as a top performance hunter, but also as a top sire of performance hunters, but the rest seem to have found their niche as sires of horses for hunter breeding classes, and not so much as sires of hunter performance horses
My guess is that for your budget, you are going to have to settle for a youngster by one of the stallions not very proven as a sire of performance horses. A prospect with chrome, sired by a stallion well up on the list of top sires of hunter performance horses, and already started under saddle, is going to cost you big bucks. You may get very, very lucky and find one in your budget, but from what I have been told by the hunter folks, if it seems like a good deal, there is probably a reason why (usually issues related to soundness, rideability, and/or talent).

You’re essentially asking for the “name brand” of the Hunter world. Deals can be had, but those foals are at a premium. If the breeder cannot get what they want for them at the moment, it’s in their best interest to hang onto them.

I don’t have what you are looking for, but like someone else said, the costs associated (and I got the breeding for half price via a stallion service auction, mare caught first try, foaled out here, I have my own farm) are nothing to sneeze at.

Look at sires who might be more off the map but are doing well. I would see if you can’t contact people who show the Hunter breeding, who develop young Hunters. Ask them who to look at, and what farms to contact.

Speaking as someone who has bred my mare to one of your top listed sires, I you’re totally unrealistic about the cost of breeding and raising a young horse. The stud fee alone for the stallion I bred my mare to is $2500. Getting the foal on the ground, including vet fees, probably cost close another $2500,and that excludes any boarding costs. So, a well bred foal has about $5,000 invested in it when it hits the ground. If you were willing to purchase a weanling or maybe yearling, $10,000 MIGHT be a realistic budget. You want one that has been backed or ready to be backed, so you are looking for a long 2 year old or 3 year old. Basically, the breeder has over $10,000 invested in the horse by the time it is that age.

You might get lucky in a distress sale situation, but your expectations and budget aren’t realistic. Either expand your search to include TBs or younger horses, or increase your budget. No breeder is going to sell you a nice hunter prospect for less than what they have invested in it unless it is afire sale situation or there is something wrong with the horse.

[QUOTE=Prime Time Rider;7466550]
If you were willing to purchase a weakling [/QUOTE] Sorry but that made me laugh :lol: (good post though!)

As DY mentioned, you have listed some very different stallions with very different abilities. So is it the brand names you are after?
Because I could find you many yearlings that you could get for 10k that are jumper bred. At that price I wouldn’t assume your going to be jumping
GP but I don’t think that matters.
Could some hunter breeders explain to me the consistency of breeding hunters and what are “proven” hunter sires?
Most of the ones on the list I saw were jumper bred stallions that have successful jumper and hunter offspring. But the those stallions that are on the on the list…where they used as hunter sires or did their jumper offspring make it over to the hunter world?

And, in addition to the expenses that Cindy Bergmann (Canterbury Court) detailed, you must plan in the event something goes wrong. There are often huge and unforeseen vet bills. Nobody has a crystal ball of course but things happen to foals and mares with very big monetary consequences. The foal might end up just fine and the mare as well, but even so, you may feel like you are putting the vet’s children through college!

Go check on Warmblood-sales.com… there are a lot of cute Redwine babies on there, a few in your price range!

Like the others said, you are unrealistic in your budget. I spent $7500 in cash & trade (nice proven hunter well-bred broodmare prospect) for a yearling ELEVEN years ago.

This year I spent over $13K for an unbroken 4yo grand-daughter from that broodmare that I had traded years ago. And I consider that a STEAL of a deal as the breeder is my friend and she knows I plan to try to make her my dream derby horse. (she wants to have more horses showing in hunters for marketing).

Just FYI, this mare’s sibling (a coming yearling) is priced over $13k already.

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Other people have indirectly alluded to the sires who have made a splash in hunter breeding, but have not had the same success in performance hunters. Aloha and Redwine being the 2 I would include in that category.

Go to the USEF and look at the list of performance hunter stallions. Popeye K is at or near the top, but many of the others will surprise you.

When I was looking for a young horse, I looked all over the US and in Canada. There are several breeders in the plains states who breed very nice horses, and who sell in your price range, but the shipping will increase the price. Of course there is Silver Creek in Oklahoma – they breed outstanding horses, but often have 1 or 2 within your price range. There is also a small breeder in ?S Dakota? who has some lovely prospects in the $8 - $10k range. And do not forget Canada. You can often get more for your $$ up there.

The last 2 young horses I have bought were from Canada and Oklahoma. And I feel that I got quality babies for the money + shipping.

If you are looking for get of the very top stallions in the East, you are not going to find what you want.

Given the sires you listed, are you looking for your prospect to have lots of white as well?

What level Hunter are you looking for? Prospect, of course :slight_smile:

Super Bad on Warmbloods for Sale is a '13 Sir Gregory for right at $10k

Taboo is a 4yo TB with a cute jump, $5,500

Lionshare by Lotus T is a flashy yearling for $9k.

Definitely get on WFS

I agree with the breeders replies for a top quality youngster. I decided to breed my own becasue I had a fabulous FEI mare that was a proven producer I am very happy with her offspring but my costs were $2,700 for stud fee, about $3,000 for all vet fees (pre foal exams, regumate for an older mare, etc. $1,000 for fees for registration and transportation to and from foal inspections and $6,000 for field boarding of weanling plus about same annually for every year up through age 3 not including annual insurance bills, vet costs and farrier bills.

If breeders sell their top quality babies for $10K, they lose money. Just a reality check.

I agree with the breeders replies for a top quality youngster. I decided to breed my own becasue I had a fabulous FEI mare that was a proven producer I am very happy with her offspring but my costs were $2,700 for stud fee, about $3,000 for all vet fees (pre foal exams, regumate for an older mare, etc. $1,000 for fees for registration and transportation to and from foal inspections and $6,000 for field boarding of weanling plus about same annually for every year up through age 3 not including annual insurance bills, vet costs and farrier bills.

If breeders sell their top quality babies for $10K, they lose money. Just a reality check.[/QUOTE]

A couple of things.
Just because someone in business puts money into to something does not make it “worth” more. Especially horses. If someone wants to breed horses that has to board them, lives in an expensive part of the country, has an uninspected mares…and so on, that does not make the foals equal to the input costs.
A top horse will always be worth good money regardless of the input costs.
You could use frozen and the stud fee could be less than 1k, do the repo work yourself on your own farm (either learn or be a vet) and put in less than 6k including mare costs. The foal could be a dud and not be worth 5k or it could be worth 18k.
Dressage foals are usually worth more because people think they can see they can see the talent. Jumper foals are worth less because their talent is unknown until they go through a chute or are undersaddle
If you look at the Europeans, you see some of the best bloodlines go for cheap (under 5k) at elite foal sales. You also might see a foal go for 60k as it depends on the quality of the foal.
So the point is, it doesn’t really matter if some people can’t breed a horse for under 8k, it is the quality of horse they get out and the market they are selling them in.
I don’t get the “popular” hunter sire thing but I do know there are a ton of young horses out there that can jump 3ft for under 10k as a yearling. Some may not be hunter types but that is as any horse shopping trip, you need to find one that suits your needs.

PS this is not an insult to the example in the quote. Just wanted to point out that input costs are not equal to final value.

An example: http://www.canadianwarmbloods.com/classifieds/classifieddetails.php?ID=302