Fixing nose position

[CanteringCarrot]

@Rosewatt Love your posts. Very informative and detailed, with a nice tone.

I find this thread useful myself as I have one that defaults to ducking behind the verticle and is a work in progress.

[beowulf]

@Rosewatt lovely post, and a belated welcome to the forum! :encouragement:

[grandprixer]

@Rosewatt

Thank you demidq I’m really glad my post helped! Fixing the btv issue was a struggle for me for so many years until that moment where everything clicked. Some horses are very good at faking a frame too, so finding the correct feel can be hard. Keep at it and I’m sure it will come

grandprixer, I wanted to add a few things after I had the chance to watch your previous video that has been mention. Although I’m keeping in mind that it was taken 2 years ago and I’m sure you two have improved lots since then!

First I’ll address the photo, you have a really lovely leg position. I think dropping your stirrup one or two holes though could give you a greater ability to help lift the horse’s belly and help bring up the back. You definitely have a hunter/ jumper position, but what you need right now is a dressage like position. First, find the right spot for your seat bones. In the picture, you are tilted forward on them. Here is a video to help you do that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZdccDVR6Rk. In particular, the knee lifts are great for finding your seat bones. I use that exercise and the leg swings every warm up still. Then, once you have your seat, I’d like to see you sit up tall; bring your chest up and push your “belt buckle” forward. This will help establish an effective core. In a CC saddle though, this can be difficult and the saddle will be working against you, but i think that you can still accomplish a similar position. You may have to focus on keeping your hips open and upper thigh stretched back though, in order to prevent your leg from slipping forward when you change your upper body. however, if you hope to pursue dressage further, then I do recommend searching for a well-fitting dressage saddle.

One pattern I noticed between the video and your picture is that it appears that you are not following your horse’s head down correctly. It appears you are trying to soften his mouth with rein, but this instead comes from the body and not the hand.You are also holding for far too long; the horse also needs you to give your hands forward as you ask for hind end engagement. In other words, you need to give the horse room to move forward. This is accomplished by allowing your elbow to come forward and it is the same in long and low. However, if your horse is now not stepping up to the bit, then other measures will need to be taken.

From seeing your other video, there is no doubt in my mind that you do need to re-establish the basics. Not because you are a bad rider or trainer - every rider has to back track at some point, but because the horse doesn’t understand all the principles leading up to connection and that is difficult to build on for collective work. This especially if you are ever considering 3rd level work with a double bridle where everything will be magnified.

Although you do have to take a step back from riding in a “frame” when going back to that basics, it does not mean that you don’t get to practice some of the more interesting things you’ve been working on now. I can confirm that it is much more challenging to practice leg yeid, shoulder in and travers without using your rein - even more challenging when you try and maintain a long-low connection whilst doing so. In this process, you’ll notice the horse suddenly wiggling out of the movement, pushing out his shoulder and trailing his haunches and you can work on all of this by making tiny alterations such as leg yielding in the opposite direction immediately as he pushes out his shoulder. Now, you are not only riding the movement, but also training your horse to self regulate the movement!

Thank you for your post. Unfortunately I don’t have the motivation or money to go further into dressage, neither I nor my horse are talented enough. We use it as a furthering of flat work for jumping, which has worked for us so far. Shows are fun but we’re maxing out.

I really liked your exercise video. I have a big problem with leaving my hunter seat, I’ve just done it so long! I actually had been working on it for a few weeks when I blew a disc in my back, needless to say I don’t lean back anymore lol but I’m trying to get it fixed. Thanks!

[Rosewatt]

CanteringCarrot and beowulf, thank you! I’m really glad the information has helped.

grandprixer, No problem! I disagree that you two aren’t talented enough for it and I think you two could do well in it It just takes lots of practice, just as jumping does. In that case though, I think incorporating the exercises from the video into every warmup would do you well. I usually do them while I’m walking the horse. Just start it out slowly so that your horse can get used to it.

Retraining muscle memory can take time, but eventually it will stick.

[lorilu]

CORRECT dressage will improve his jumping. INCORRECT dressage flatwork will not. You dont have to “go further into dressage” todo correct flatwork/dressage.

… I have jsut spent the last two weeks working on contact with my PSG Lusitano. Going behind the vertical and dropping his back is his trick. There is a very small window of neck position where the contact is consistently correct.
I did nothing but work on the snaffle. LOTS of walk. Take contact wherever his head is - low, BTV, up, whatever. Get contact by 1. shortening your reins and putting your hands out in front of you and 2. being sure you are using your back and legs to engage him. Remember contact is live - not a holding hand, or a braced hand - be sure your contact is friendly to the natural movement of his head. MAKE him go into the contact. (Flame suit on ) then, slooowly lengthen your arms and see where he takes the bit. Do not let the reins get slack. Keep him pushing into the contact by using your back, your seat, and your legs (and, in my case, I needed a touch of the whip at times…)
RInse and repeat. Use bending lines.

THis work really opened MY eyes to my little position flaws because so much of it was at the walk. Side benefit!!

After you can do halt-walk and wlak-halt transitions without losing the contact, move to w-trot and trot-w transitions.

[Dutchmare433]

@lorilu

CORRECT dressage will improve his jumping. INCORRECT dressage flatwork will not. You dont have to “go further into dressage” todo correct flatwork/dressage.

… I have jsut spent the last two weeks working on contact with my PSG Lusitano. Going behind the vertical and dropping his back is his trick. There is a very small window of neck position where the contact is consistently correct.
I did nothing but work on the snaffle. LOTS of walk. Take contact wherever his head is - low, BTV, up, whatever. Get contact by 1. shortening your reins and putting your hands out in front of you and 2. being sure you are using your back and legs to engage him. Remember contact is live - not a holding hand, or a braced hand - be sure your contact is friendly to the natural movement of his head. MAKE him go into the contact. (Flame suit on ) then, slooowly lengthen your arms and see where he takes the bit. Do not let the reins get slack. Keep him pushing into the contact by using your back, your seat, and your legs (and, in my case, I needed a touch of the whip at times…)
RInse and repeat. Use bending lines.

THis work really opened MY eyes to my little position flaws because so much of it was at the walk. Side benefit!!

After you can do halt-walk and wlak-halt transitions without losing the contact, move to w-trot and trot-w transitions.

I agree with you on this—if you drop the contact on a horse that ducks behind, it can just teach them to duck more to avoid the contact. The in between can feel terrible—if you have a horse who is light in the contact but goes behind the vertical you end up with a heavier horse behind the vertical before you get back to a light horse reliably on the bit.