Fixing the Up and Down Canter

My horse is a continual work in progress and while she’s progressed nicely at the walk and trot (as far as relaxation, reaching into the contact vs curling behind, etc), her canter is where we still fall apart and revert to the up and down, quick but going nowhere, curling behind the contact to speed up canter. I have poles and cavaletti (though those trigger her anxiety which were also working on) and hills but am limited on space with a 20m ish round pen sized area and a 20mx40m area on a slope. Horse has been vetted six ways from Sunday and can canter nicely on looped rein but if she gets fresh or you otherwise need to take contact she gets worried and does the up and down quick thing. Looking for some exercises to try with her!

If she can lope around on a loop then the issue is her mouth or your hand and it’s mechanical or psychological. It’s likely a blend.

Have you videoed your ride? What bits have you tried? How does she go with another rider with contact? Do you have regular eyes on the ground?

No regular eyes on the ground though I could/ should start doing video lessons (trailer is currently out of commission and being addressed).
Same with other riders.
Lots of bits - currently she’s in a loose ring Nathe to try to encourage her to push up into the bit. She’s also gone in a Stubben Golden Wing 3 piece loose ring and a Fager Sally with fixed rings and a leather loose ring - she’s fairly ambivalent between those 4 but I think the Nathe has been helping her trust the contact a bit more. She is a strong horse (has bullied riders in the past I bet) but sensitive, and not a kick ride type FWIW. She has been ridden in bigger bits for years off and on prior to me, which I think is where the curling + up and down comes from (hiding from the contact while simultaneously blowing through it).
ETA: She was ridden in various gags for a few years and from what I can tell is a horse that hates poll pressure so I’m sure that didn’t help. Of course, I haven’t used a gag with her since I bought her a year ago.

In all honesty, this sounds like something that’s just going to take time. Horse needs to find her balance at the canter on her own (sounds like you’re getting there) and then between the bit and the leg. Other than that, check your saddle fit and bridle fit.

As long as you feel safe on her, I’d be cantering her in the larger area. First on the longe, and then riding. Horses can’t relax when they don’t feel balanced. Let her canter as big as you can on the longe with side reins (you should be longing in only a snaffle) and let her go until she finds her balance. She needs to learn she can go forward even when there’s a boundary. It might take a week for her to figure out the balance by herself. Then add the rider.

If the horse goes nicely with the same bit into the side reins in balance, it’s a rider issue. Either the horse isn’t strong enough to carry the rider in balance, or the rider isn’t sitting in balance and/or the horse finds something offensive about the rider’s hands. It’s hard to ride a horse that hasn’t figured out the balance with a rider. I started my youngster this summer, and I haven’t had freshly started baby in a little while. I forgot how tiring it is to balance yourself and the horse. But if you’re carrying tension or sitting against the motion, it makes balance really difficult for the horse.

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How much leg are you using when you pick up rein contact?

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This was my thought too. Leg her up into the contact she’s avoiding, using figures and transitions to keep the speed reasonable.

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This is a problem that is really very hard to fix. Once a horse learns to hide behind the bit like that it’s the go-to move, especially for a strong horse. You can slowly work on it with draw reins to the belly if you have a really good feel. But the horse will always revert if it’s fresh or worried, it’s one of those things that never really comes out of them.

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I agree with the leg train of thought - I think the (perhaps mental only) block I have is that I feel like I don’t have about space to do the figures (serpentines, figure 8s, loops, etc) to help with the pace. I had another horse that had a similar evasion (well the same but not to this degree and wasn’t half as strong as this one) and lots and lots of trot canter trot on 20m circles and within figure 8s really helped her relax in the canter and within the upward and downward transitions to/from canter, which this horse could use as well.

Can you just put your leg on and canter until your horse decides to settle? No figures, just cantering until she accepts it.

My mare was very quick and when someone finally told me to put my leg on her, it took many laps of the ring for her to realize that it wasn’t worth overreacting to it. Of course, it took rides beyond that to reinforce it, but those initial canter laps were crucial for teaching her that she could relax with my leg on.

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You can try some exercises that really ask her to go into one rein, like some shallow leg yields to start to build trust in the contact before you require she be really through into 2 reins. Quick transitions through trot can also keep the hind legs more active which is where your push will come from. If you do it on a circle, you can ride more off your outside rein even in a little shoulder fore.

And hand gallops :slight_smile:

I imported a dressage horse from Spain (a Hanovarian) and he had an up down canter. He was shoed long in the toes and high in the heels and was a bit sore in his stifles. We gradually fixed his shoeing and did PRP on his stifles and over months of patient training, got him to open up. Lots of little forward and back spurts, spirals in and out and counter canter.

I have one who likes to do it. And using more leg just resulted in a faster behind-the-bit canter.
I had the best results with riding her in a bitless bridle to break the curling habit, then gradually re-introducing the bit.

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I’ve been heavily debating this in my head! I think that removing the bit entirely could be helpful in re-teaching her to accept contact without getting stressed/ anxious and trying to block me out. I don’t have any hackamores or bitless options (besides halters) to try on hand, so have been looking to pick something up. My thought is to stay away from mechanical hackamores or any with a leverage effect as that could cause her to curl too. I’ve been looking at the Dyon La Cense: https://marystack.com/dyon-la-cense-bitless-bridle/?sku=147762-004&gclid=Cj0KCQjwhL6pBhDjARIsAGx8D5-DDTOaRIpODM5DvAzFBJALUFB2kPxxBhha8_PzJAnppYm6zbuKVEIaAscjEALw_wcB

You can also just get a side pull noseband from Dover for like $60. Goes on whatever bridle you have laying around.

The D’yon is very much like a rope halter, but for sensitive ones that curl (I have one!), I like a beefier leather noseband with maybe a halter fleece or sheepskin on the bridge. My curler goes well in the rolled leather side pull or a flat leather halter, personally. Though the halter lacks emergency steering so it is relegated to casual walking around the pasture :laughing:

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I’d also consider going bitless for a while and see what that produces. I have one that’s hot, spicy, sensitive - not necessarily a curler, head tossing is her preferred evasion - but she can get what I call her “Zenyatta canter” and get super up and down on her hind end and evasive. I rode her for a while in a mild, short-shanked hackamore before I discovered the Sweet Billy’s bridleless bit (I usually use it with a headstall). It’s been a game changer for us. Her Zenyatta canter only makes an appearance during special occasions now and she’s happy to go onto the ‘bit.’

https://www.etsy.com/listing/723613283/bridle-less-bit?click_key=2ba6b9093d5f35511c7ae2d766039890a1c0c2ce%3A723613283&click_sum=6a4f7071&ref=shop_home_active_24&frs=1&crt=1&sts=1

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I use a knock off of the Dr. Cook’s Bitless Bridle, which has poll pressure but no leverage.
I have also used an old fashioned dropped noseband (but a bit higher up on the nose) with reins attached to the rings on the side.

I wouldn’t use a rope noseband. In fact, I might put a fleece cover over the leather noseband.

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Unfortunately the only bridle I have that fits her is the Schockemöhle Equitus Delta where the noseband is integrated/ can’t be removed that I can figure so a whole other bridle is in order :sweat_smile:

My guy does something very similar. I’ve tried every bit under the sun without much improvement, but the thing that’s really helped (in addition to hind end/SI strengthening exercises) is riding him with a neck rope/strap. We dabble in western at times and he knows how to neck rein and is generally responsive to my seat on a loose rein, so when he starts curling and getting hoppy, I lengthen my reins and use the neck strap as a kind of reset button. Once he’s checked back in I can add more rein contact. The strap is long enough that I can hold it with like a curb rein, so I can use either or both as necessary.
I know it’s nowhere near anything correct but my guy is 19 and has never actually learned to carry himself on contact correctly, so I’m ok with being a little out of the box.

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I have a 13 year old hunter that does this when he’s wild, which is often. Either wild or so slow that I’m out of breath trying to get him to trot three times around the ring. He opens his mouth with anything but light contact even in a rubber snaffle, which is his normal bit. I’ve often thought that I’d have better luck riding him in a halter!

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Try taking your horse out on a trail ride or to training gallops where you can just open up and canter for a good long distance. No corners, no need to keep things slow and tightly controlled, just allowing her to find her balance and long, open stride. If possible, a friend along may help too.

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