Flash bands - cruel/abuse?

[endlessclimb]

This came up in a discussion recently. It was stated that flash bands are abusive and/or cruel.

I don’t agree personally - I think a flash band properly adjusted stabilizes the bit in a horse’s mouth. I’ve never used them to strap a horse’s mouth closed (and if the horse is finding the straps restrictive when properly adjusted, needing to gape that much, what is the rider doing wrong with their hands?
or does the horse not like the bit?).

I think a cranked down flash is cruel, but not a properly adjusted one. Thoughts?

[Willesdon]

• Warning: this is a rant *

The flash first appeared in European dressage, oooh, 25 or 30 years ago, where young horses are produced to sell for high prices and the strap is designed to keep their mouth shut to hide resistence, the lack of acceptance and gaps in training. From there, following fashion, every bridle acquired a flash noseband. The issue is that no one quite knows how to adjust it: which way it goes around the nose; end of strap pointing up or pointing down; the position of the buckle. There is permanent confusion amongst riders.

If the horse is accepting a contact and the rider has sufficient skill to have “good hands”, then the bit will be still in it’s closed mouth, often without any noseband. “Taking the bit”. If a horse does have a busy mouth then a correctly adjusted figure of eight or grackle will possibly/probably do a better job than a caveson pulled downwards out of shape by a flash attached to keep it down and so making a ‘sort of’ figure of eight. And to fit and support the flash, the caveson goes too high on the face applying pressure on a sensitive part of the head, just at the base of the cheek bones.

If you ask around, a distressing number of riders will tell you that the flash is designed to stop the bit “falling out of the horses mouth”. Struth!!!

In days of my youth, when Noah’s flood was still merely a distant weather warning, the trendy noseband to assist a young horse was the drop noseband. They can also be difficult to fit correctly.

It is interesting to look at headshots of top horses in the 1960s and 70s and see how unconfined their heads are.

Some people, however, love a flash.

[TheMoo]

Like any other piece of equipment it has its purpose. I liken the flash in dressage to the standing martingale in hunters. People think “it completes the picture.”

[Scribbler]

I have never seen a flash IRL that wasn’t way too tight and being used to keep the mouth shut. This means also a very tight noseband.

When I use a snaffle I ride with no noseband unless it’s needed for a competition.

The fad for ergonomic padded bridles is directly linked to this fad. A tight noseband and flash put a lot of downward pressure on the poll. A snaffle with no flash and even no noseband puts no pressure in the poll.

[endlessclimb]

Interesting. I know a local dressage barn that still has almost everything in a drop noseband.

My cavessons are not pulled out of shape by my flash, and I’ve never adjusted a cavesson due to adding a flash. I know my fussy mare hated any extra movement in her mouth, and the flash helped quiet down any momentary lapses in contact, be it her doing or mine.

[GoodTimes]

I don’t particularly like them, and haven’t used one in nearly a decade.
I would rather have my horse tell me that they don’t like something so that I can fix it.
My A/O hunter did a lot of gaping whenever I took any contact. In a different barn or a different discipline he may have been subjected to a variety of nosebands or a flash to keep that mouth closed. Instead, I bought and borrowed nearly a dozen bits before we found one that he found comfortable. Now I don’t even need a noseband.
My 3yo gets fussy with her mouth when she’s nervous. Someone else might try to hold that mouth shut. Instead, I find a way to help her relax.

I would find it alarming if every horse went in a flash for every ride. I think it can be beneficial in some situations. But it should be a tool, not a permanent part of the outfit.

[horseshorseshorseshorses]

My current horse goes in a flash noseband that is loose enough to slip 2 fingers under the leather at the bridge of the nose and is high enough to not impede his breathing. It is loose enough he can chew and move the bit a little. I don’t want to hold his mouth shut but I do want to prevent him from sucking the bit into his teeth and running off. I am 99% sure he picked that trick up at the track and until he unlearns it, he will be in a flash. Even a lightly tightened noseband with a flash makes it far more challenging for him to do it. He still can (my lesson last night was proof of that and only lasted 2 strides) but it isn’t every ride.

People who have their flash so tight that the horse can’t shift their mouths around at all, that is more than a little out of hand. Is it cruel/abuse? Maybe. I think it comes down to all the other factors in the ride. I don’t like seeing it on any horse. If a rider/trainer has it with all their horses/clients horses I generally think that reflects negatively on the rider/trainer.

[IPEsq]

I don’t like them and think that most not too tight flashes have very little effect on anything. I’d choose a figure 8 or even a drop or one of those double noseband things over one. I do think that most people use it for fashion, at least in the dressage world. I’m not a fan of using standing martingales when they aren’t needed, or too tight standing martingales, either.

[GraceLikeRain]

I don’t care for them and don’t use them. If two stacked fingers can fit under the flash I do not see it as “cruel”. I have never understood the explanation of a flash or even a noseband “stabilizing” the bit although I’ve heard that dozens of times from very successful riders and trainers.

In some instances I’ve seen someone tighten one or both that was “too loose” and then commented on how much more stable the bit was in the mouth. Instead, it looked like the same contact issue was present but less visible because the mouth couldn’t open as far to gape, grind, or do some other type of displaced behavior.

[anon510129]

I’ll bite since no one has mentioned using a flash to keep a horse from getting their tongue over the bit.

My friend leased a horse at a big show and in one of her first rounds the horse started throwing his head, so much so my friend had a hard time keeping her pace and getting to the jumps. Sure enough, tongue was over the bit. We threw a flash on (adjusted properly) and problem solved.

I ride my horse in both, depending on the bit. I noticed while lunging her in the Pessoa that she had her mouth open. I put a flash on for jumping and she throws her head less. Never too tight, padded noseband and all. She seems happier And yeah, I’ve tried riding with no noseband - didn’t go so well.

[IPEsq]

@anon510129

I’ll bite since no one has mentioned using a flash to keep a horse from getting their tongue over the bit.

My friend leased a horse at a big show and in one of her first rounds the horse started throwing his head, so much so my friend had a hard time keeping her pace and getting to the jumps. Sure enough, tongue was over the bit. We threw a flash on (adjusted properly) and problem solved.

I ride my horse in both, depending on the bit. I noticed while lunging her in the Pessoa that she had her mouth open. I put a flash on for jumping and she throws her head less. Never too tight, padded noseband and all. She seems happier And yeah, I’ve tried riding with no noseband - didn’t go so well.

That’s more likely a bit problem than a noseband problem.

[Jealoushe]

The flash’s sole purpose isn’t just to “shut the mouth”. It also can serve to help support the bit in place. For some horses, the added flash makes them much happier in the mouth because of this. It doesn’t have to be tight for this either.

For those saying they have never seen a flash that wasn’t too tight. I have never seen one that was. So maybe it is just the company you keep that you are seeing this.

[endlessclimb]

That was my mare. She had very meaty lips, but a very short lip and corresponding bar area. To pull the bit up in her mouth to where the lip tension assisted in stabilizing meant it was bumping her molars. With the bit hung a little lower though, it had too much movement for her and my liking. A properly adjusted flash fixed it.

@IPEsq I’ve never seen a double noseband that wasn’t impeding on a horse’s ability to breathe - the lower band just sits too low, and will impinge on the horse’s ability to flare their nostrils. Just my opinion on that particular piece of equipment.

[endlessclimb]

[endlessclimb]

Another example. Here, theres a flair strip under the band- defeats the purpose of the flair, no?

[anon510129]

I’m not sure how. I’ve seen horses get their tongue over the bit in wildly different bits (the one at the show recently had a rubber pelham and another horse in a full cheek slow twist). I guess a bit with a port would help, but then that’s a completely different bit you’d be using.

[four2farm]

Everything in moderation…A flash is fine if the horse needs a flash. Personally if my horse gapes his mouth, I am old school enough to believe that it is:
A. A bit problem
B A training issue
C A bridle adjustment issue
D My hands suck…

As for a horse that either gets over the bit or after all of the above is addressed, still needs one, then so be it. Properly adjusted, fine by me. The fact that they are now “expected”, show us that we are very much slaves to fashion.

"To my mind, fashion is one of the wickedest things in the world.”
Anna Sewell - Black Beauty

[IPEsq]

A horse that is evading a bit with its tongue might want some kind of tongue relief like a port. The answer may not to be to carry on using the same kind of bit.

[MsM]

I never thought I would be a flash user, but here I am…

Old horse didnt use a flash - cut the loop off his dressage bridle and all was good.

Current horse came to me very green, fussy, mouthy, and unbalanced. We played the game of trying to find what he liked. Bit higher, lower. Single joint, double joint, mullen mouth. Loose ring, eggbutt, full cheek. What works for him is an eggbutt double joint bean bit with a padded cavesson and a snug-but-not-tight flash. This seems to keep the bit stable enough while allowing him to play a bit. He certainly can take a sugar with this on as he expects one when he has done something new well! (“my quarter has run out!”) He may be fine without it now and I will likely experiemnt without it in the future, but for now Iam not messing with what keeps us both happy.

[GoodTimes]

Agreed. I mentioned up thread that I have a horse who we experimented with. He has a small muzzle and a large tongue, if you lift his lips his tongue is often squishing out between his teeth.
Turns out he loves a bit with a port so that he has tongue relief. Once we figured that out he stopped opening his mouth and stopped fighting the rider. So much happier.

And I now if SO and I ever decide to have an actual wedding I have more than enough bits for centrepieces and decor.