I personally would shoot any predator that was clearly attacking my livestock… I feel bad for this guy getting arrested for this.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-arrested-shooting-alligator-says-232400733.html?nhp=1
Plead “not guilty” and take the case to trial. In a rural county the odds of conviction would be very low. In an urban county, maybe not so good for the defense.
G.
Near our yard, there is a property with four Great Danes and not very secure fencing. The dogs have gotten out several times and killed a couple of calves. The owner of the calves told the owner of the dogs he would shoot them if they chased his cattle again.
A couple of weeks back, they got out and came after our yard’s Jack Russel. If my friend and I had not been schooling outside of the arena, near the fence where he was attacked, he would have been dead. As it is, he only just pulled through, with over 40 stitches, and two severely injured legs. The GD’s owner’s response? Oh my dogs couldn’t have done that, they are fine around little dogs…
He didn’t shoot the gator because it was on his property. He shot it for going after his livestock. There was an immediate danger. An immediate and present danger justifies much…
i also think he did the right thing. or at least i don’t think he was wrong to shoot the dangerous animal that was a threat to his livestock.
[QUOTE=Engage;8805411]
Near our yard, there is a property with four Great Danes and not very secure fencing. The dogs have gotten out several times and killed a couple of calves. The owner of the calves told the owner of the dogs he would shoot them if they chased his cattle again.
A couple of weeks back, they got out and came after our yard’s Jack Russel. If my friend and I had not been schooling outside of the arena, near the fence where he was attacked, he would have been dead. As it is, he only just pulled through, with over 40 stitches, and two severely injured legs. The GD’s owner’s response? Oh my dogs couldn’t have done that, they are fine around little dogs…
He didn’t shoot the gator because it was on his property. He shot it for going after his livestock. There was an immediate danger. An immediate and present danger justifies much…[/QUOTE]
Two Words: Animal Control.
If you have spoken with the owners and they refuse to accept that their darling hounds would ever do such a thing as attack a smaller dog then file a formal complaint. If in your state a dog owner has the duty to confine their dog or have it “under control” then an “elopement” is a violation of that law. It does no good to complain here, in spite of the fact that it’s usually a place for positive feedback for victims.
Regardless of what actually happens, once you go “on the pad” then the spotlight shifts to the owner. If you have video, photos, etc. of the dogs out that will be a major point in your favor, as it ends the “he said…she said…” defense.
If they get out and can be safely handled, then try and confine them on your property (a stall might work well) and then call Animal Control to pick them up. The owners having to pay $100/dog or so to get them back might cause a change in their behavior.
Don’t shoot a trespassing animal unless you can establish it is a danger to a human or other animal.
Protected wildlife endangering domestic animals is a real issue and right now the law generally favors the protected animal. Know what the rules are in your state and follow them. Just don’t “follow them to death.”
G.
I’d never convict anyone for killing an animal (or a person for that matter) who was threatening animals, mine or anyone else’s. In most situations, it is best to avoid the issue and sss. I had a friend who killed a hawk (protected by federal laws) that was attacking his chickens. I told him I did not hear him say that and never to repeat it.
My father used to shoot gators when he and his best friend were out duck hunting. Right by the federal refuge. Where his friend was employed as a federal ranger and lived. Gators eat the ducks as well as anything else they can catch.
I suspect he would have not reported anything except the son in law got badly bitten. I feel terrible for both of them because he SHOULD have a right to protect his horses.
I’m in South Fla and once a gator grows to 6’ or more, people will call Fish & Game to remove it as it could become a threat to dogs, kids, etc. We figure any body of water bigger than a bathtub, probably has one or more gators in it. They swim throughout the canal system, walk to lakes, climb fences and trees to get where they want to go.
A 9’ gator is huge and is a threat to adults and livestock as the son sadly found out. I’m very surprised they charged him at all. He should have the right to protect his livestock.
wow, I dont live in FL, but, if there are that many gators, I think I would probably research gator safe fencing?
Is there a way to keep them out of your pastures?
well, after doing a little research, apparently gators can climb fences!
I guess there is no really good way of keeping them out.
Eh. He’s not the first or last person to go to court after defending his animal from an attack by a protected species.
He should be held accountable–the laws for protected species are there to ensure people are held accountable. It’s not the same as a non-protected predator or a neighbor’s dog attacking.
And the policeman on the ground should not be responsible for deciding if the guy is telling the truth about the livestock attack or if that is cover/an excuse for some other, definitely illegal activity. The courts are there to sort that stuff out.
If he’s telling the truth, I hope he does get off. In his place, I’d have done the same thing and then accepted the consequences of that. But I have zero issue with him being held accountable and having to defend breaking the law in court.
[QUOTE=Jumpin_Horses;8805906]
wow, I dont live in FL, but, if there are that many gators, I think I would probably research gator safe fencing?
Is there a way to keep them out of your pastures?
well, after doing a little research, apparently gators can climb fences!
I guess there is no really good way of keeping them out.[/QUOTE]
Here:
He could have called the horses out of that pasture and turned the gator in to animal control to attend to. Than no one would have gotten hurt.
[QUOTE=DressageFancy;8806529]
He could have called the horses out of that pasture and turned the gator in to animal control to attend to. Than no one would have gotten hurt.[/QUOTE]
Srsly?
Guilherme-There is another issue with animal control in many places. Some counties don’t have animal control, or any other enforcement. The dangerous or vicious animal rules vary according to state, and city too.
Where I live now, animal control exists in the city, and county, but there are no vicious dog laws. They do have a shelter, but no laws they enforce about vicious dogs. A child was killed in his grandparents back yard right after I moved here, by the neighbors many dogs. Nothing could be done about the dogs because of the lack of vicious dog laws, but the owner voluntarily put the animals down. I don’t know if the laws have been changed since, but they didn’t exist then.
Where I used to live the city had good animal control, but the county had nothing. They didn’t even have a real shelter, but used one of the local vets for dogs picked up by animal control.
Have you been around gators, those of you who say call animal control? One minute gator is sunning and next minute he’s up doing about 35 mph after prey. Or sometimes just while sunning he’ll smell prey and snap it up as it walks by him. Gators look like logs when they are dozing in the sun.
So gator can wander off while you go call animal control, or eat one of your dogs, or snap off a leg of a horse. Florida even has some crocodiles which are meaner than gators. Gators and crocs climb fences all the time around here. And hang out around ponds inland, so they are not just on the coastline and in swamps.
I “get” that there are problems calling Animal Control in some places and under some circumstances. Most law enforcement offices do, also. But that doesn’t change the rules. It can change how the rules are enforced.
Not having seen the investigation report I don’t know what facts were found by the field investigators or what moved the prosecutor to file charges. There may be a “rest of the story” that’s not public, yet. Or not.
If the accused feels they were right they should plead “not guilty” and let a jury decide. That’s how the system works.
G.
They can lock me up…after I protect my animals!!! Really…who’s going to miss ONE “livestock killing” gator!! There are millions “protected”. They killed many in Fla. when the kid was killed at Disneyland!!
[QUOTE=Guilherme;8805372]
Plead “not guilty” and take the case to trial. In a rural county the odds of conviction would be very low. In an urban county, maybe not so good for the defense.
G.[/QUOTE]
That would depend on the judge. One of my neighbors killed a gator that was in an elderly neighbor’s yard and had killed his dog. The older man had called for help so the guy went and dispatched the gator. Someone turned him in for killing the gator and he had to pay a hefty fine, his gun was confiscated and he lost his hunting license.
I wonder if this gator was really that big. People tend to over estimate size. Most gators would not be a threat to a full sized horse. They aren’t as aggressive as crocodiles.
Wild&Wicked, what your friend and your dad’s friend did was despicable. There is a reason wildlife is protected and hunting controlled, to protect it from slobs like that.
[QUOTE=wireweiners;8807794]
That would depend on the judge. One of my neighbors killed a gator that was in an elderly neighbor’s yard and had killed his dog. The older man had called for help so the guy went and dispatched the gator. Someone turned him in for killing the gator and he had to pay a hefty fine, his gun was confiscated and he lost his hunting license.
I wonder if this gator was really that big. People tend to over estimate size. Most gators would not be a threat to a full sized horse. They aren’t as aggressive as crocodiles.
Wild&Wicked, what your friend and your dad’s friend did was despicable. There is a reason wildlife is protected and hunting controlled, to protect it from slobs like that.[/QUOTE]
If I were ever charged with a crime I’d have trouble imagining not wanting a jury trial.
G.
Believe me, wildlife have very few rights - so I am all for protecting them. I lived in Fl. - with horses - with alligators swimming across my driveway after rain that lasted days - never saw one attack a horse. Now, I had a neighbors son killed and partially eaten by a gator when he waded across a canal! I respect gators and don’t swim in ponds ect. I have personally caught a gator ( 4 ft.) and tied its mouth shut and called fish and game to come get it. They aren’t hard to catch and I’m not afraid of wildlife. I DO have a problem when a neighbors dog goes after my horses, dogs or me! There is NO excuse.
