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Fly Repellent Comparison Study?

Horse Care
#61

I expect that once an active ingredient is accepted as having an effect and being safe, manufacturers don’t need to do full lab tests on each new iteration of the same product.

That I understand is why The Body Shop can claim that they don’t do animal testing of their products. They use standard commercial ingredients that have already been tested on animals long ago and deemed safe.

So my guess is that if permethrin is a known, accepted, permitted ingredient with known performance parameters, you can market a fly spray that is permethrin plus water or oil or other permitted emollient or fragrance etc. The company presumably would do a little in house testing or trials to optimize the performance versus cost to manufacture. But they wouldn’t be required to run full lab tests.

When you have a bunch of similar or almost identical products out there, the job of evaluating them usually falls to a “consumer reports” type entity. What is the best lipstick, shampoo, air conditioning, half ton pickup truck, etc?

1 Like
#62

@Scribbler well, sure–every company that comes out with fly spray doesn’t need to demonstrate that permethrin is effective. But if they’re making claims about duration, like Endure is, they’ll have to back that up, since that really has nothing to do with the repellent. For Endure it’s “RepeLock”…whatever that is. Something that binds to the hair. And their claim is it provides up to 14 days of “fly protection” not that it’s just present for 14 days. From the Farnam site:

“Provides up to 14 days fly control”

and

“Application should be liberal for best results. Reapply every 5 to 7 days under normal conditions for initial applications. As protection builds, reapply every 10 to 14 days as needed. Also, reapply each time animal is washed or exposed to heavy rain.”

And, interestingly:

“Repeat application as necessary but no more often than once every 5 to 7 days.”

(I can tell you that when I used Endure, I applied it a hell of a lot more frequently than 5 - 7 days! Because it sure didn’t last that long :lol: But I also found it to dry the coat terribly, which is maybe why they say not to use it with any frequency?)

But someone…presumably Farnam, because I don’t think they purchased the formula?..would have had to do some testing to support those claims. IIRC from the launch of Endure, it was lab testing much like vxf is talking about. Unfortunately that doesn’t translate well to real life :frowning:

Also kind of interesting is Endure’s active ingredient list:

[TABLE=“border: 1, cellpadding: 3, cellspacing: 0”]
[TR]
[TD=“align: left”]Cypermethrin, CAS # 52315-07-8[/TD]
[TD=“align: left”]0.15%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=“align: left”]Pyrethrins, CAS # 8003-34-7[/TD]
[TD=“align: left”]0.20%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=“align: left”]Piperonyl Butoxide Technical*, CAS # 51-03-6[/TD]
[TD=“align: left”]1.60%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=“align: left”]Butoxy Polypropylene Glycol, CAS # 9003-13-8[/TD]
[TD=“align: left”]5.00%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I don’t think I’ve seen another with cypermethrin?

Another thing of note…the aerosol Pyranha contains 0.3% pyrethrin. I’ve always heard people swear by it but never understood the hype. Oh, it’s got THREE TIMES the pyrethrin of the standard spray Pyranha. :lol: No wonder!!!

#63

Cypermethrin is apparently a synthetic pyrethin.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypermethrin

And I think the caveat is “up to” 14 days fly control.

#64

I have had really good results with Ecovet. It has been my best option by far, as none of the conventional sprays seem to work for more than a very few minutes, if that. We had a terrible infestation of deer flies and horse flies this year, and Ecovet worked great. If for some reason the Ecovet isn’t working for me then I use Equiderma Aloe and Neem spray, but that has been pretty rare. The Ecovet lasts 24 hours, as well. I generally spray every morning and this is enough to keep the horses comfortable and not stomping and swishing.

I live in Coastal SC.

#65

ALL permethrins are synthetic pyrethrin.

And I think the caveat is “up to” 14 days fly control.

Yup, but that claim had to come from somewhere (lab testing) and not just out of thin air

#66

You are not ranting. Some people are just like that.

1 Like
#67

I’ve been showing a lot this summer and completely saturate my horse in the black Ultrashield which seems to do a great job as long as you use at least half a bottle. It supposedly has sunscreen and conditioners too. His coat is super shiny, but his dapples have faded so I can’t say the sunscreen works wonderfully.

I’ve used many different ones and just think you need to really spray a lot on them and it never ever lasts more than a day.

#68

I believe it was year before last, if not last year, that Untacked Magazine did a survey on Fly Sprays. It picked the product I have used for years with great results.

Found it! July August 2015.http://read.uberflip.com/i/531771-july-august-2015

#69

Unless and until somebody at least tries to use a consistent “yardstick” measure effectiveness of multiple products and a disciplined analysis of the data generated you’re left with puffery.

G.

#70

Interesting, thanks! They only tested permethrin / pyrethin and essential oil brands, not the outliers (Ecovet and that other one). They preferred the brand I’m currently using, which does last for a 4 hour trail ride but only if you spray it everywhere. Miss the face and horse comes back looking like she has acne. And flies still hover and annoy her.

If an essential oil spray really did last for a 5 hour trail ride i’d use it, but IME they didn’t work at all.

Would boosting the permethrin per cent with a jug of pesticide really help or is the problem that permethrin just degrades quickly?

#71

You can buy Pyranha that is pre-mixed. I buy it by the gallon and dilute it - as directed. It’s cheaper that way. I’m just glad that the neighbor that had cattle and pigs moved away. When I was a kid on Lake Erie in the early 50s, we walked around in clouds of now-banned bug spray. Still standing.

btw… those magnetic, fly screen doors really work. And, ours has been up for over a year. Dog goes in and out like it’s not there. You just don’t want any metal near it or it will attach to that when the dog goes in and out. Cheaper at the big-box stores than on TV.

#72

Can you link to this product?

The only dilutable pyranha I’ve seen is the stuff for the fly spray systems and that’s well north of 50/gallon.

This is what I’m talking about

#73

Simkie, you are right. I just checked. We’re now using the Spray & Wipe. I didn’t realize we’d changed. That is $64/gal. Now that I’m paying attention to what we’re ordering - I’ll ask my feed store to get some that you dilute. Pyranha had that in smaller containers. I’ll have to see if they still do. Thanks for the wake up.

#74

Aw, bummer! I was really hoping for a $50 gallon of concentrate (how awesome would that be?!)

FWIW, you can get the wipe and spray for less online. Last time I looked around, the best price I found was from Santa Cruz. Free shipping over $75, and they get stuff out really quickly :smiley: They also carry this stuff which is a concentrate. Half gallon for $70? Don’t know how much you dilute it. Haven’t ever seen that particular product before!

#75

If you bought a concentrate, with what do you dilute? The thing with pyrethins is they degrade quickly which is why they are considered environmentally safer and ok for organic farming.

The commercial fly sprays have formulas for sunscreen and emollient to extend the effectiveness of the pyrethins.

#76

This discussion has been very interesting!

I bought some Clac roll on yesterday.

Ingredients:

  • 15% Lauryl Sulfate.
  • 9.9 % Citronella Oil.
  • 6% Clove Oil.
  • 3% Thyme Oil.
  • 2% Cedar Oil.
  • .2% Geranium Oil.
  • Olive oil, Grape Seed Oil, Vitamin E, Water.
I've been using Pyranha for the most part, Ultrashield - which works okay and is no better or worse than anything else - and tried Ecovet last year but my poor mare ran away from me because of the smell :lol: (Can I blame her??)

The cashier at Dover said “this works great!”, of course that’s one person’s opinion; but heck - I was just looking for something to apply to her face and upper neck since the flies have been AWFUL after a really wet May and June in our area, followed by horrid heat and humidity.

I also bought a fly mask to put over the bridle since my application of Pyranha and SWAT on her face and ears was having no apparent effect. I put the Clac roll on where the fly mask didn’t cover (nose and cheek), and it did seem to help a bit with repelling the flies during our hack through the high grass - or at least she was a bit less fussy and miserable - so I am giving it a cautious thumbs up.

As for essential oils, is that what’s in Skin So Soft?

#77

Clac is essential oils from your description. They may have immediate repellant effects but don’t last very long. The ones I’ve tried didn’t work at all, so I upgraded to Ultra shield.

Maresy still fusses at the insects buzzing her but comes back with far fewer bite bumps. When I didn’t put enough on her face she ended the ride looking like she had bad acne on her face!

So I evaluate by counting bite bumps, not jusy fussiness.

#78

Generally you add water. Often the concentrate includes some protective elements.

#79

Last year Eco-Vet worked wonders. This year it does nothing. I’m using both their old and new scent this year, and it’s like a special sauce for the bugs this year…they attack him with great delight. Nothing is working this years. Epic bug year.

#80

I make my own random mix, which seems to be fairly good. I take about 3-4 oz of clac concentrate, 3-4 oz of Flicks concentrate, add about 10 drops of pennyroyal oil, geranium oil and peppermin and lavender if I have it, then add about a 1.2 oz of neem seed oil. Fill the rest of the sprayer with equal parts bronco and water. I alternate that with repelX with need oil and penny royal

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