I am curious to see the actual mechanics of this with your particular horse, because I can’t picture it in my mind. Not accusing you of being wrong
For some horses that want to rush, anticipate, or fall in, I do a half turn in reverse by a bit of a leg yield off the rail, then ask for the change to the counter lead as if I’m setting up for a tight teardrop back to the rail. Having the rail there can keep them straighter. I’ll do this for eq horses in particular who may be asked to change to the counter lead in an awkward location in a workoff.
I think we sometimes misinterpret where flying changes come from. We think it’s setting up legs but if you want a good smooth flying change you need access to that back muscle. No flying change muscle = no change. If they are late behind then a lot of walk canter walk to make the hind end quicker. On some horses it’s the shoulders that need lightened for a good change. How much control do you have over your horse’s legs? I went through flying change hell until I learned I should be able to ask for every leg and get it.
@IPEsq, as I mentioned, the pole helps my horse and helps him to associate that flying change at this point in the arena. I planned to use this in my favor. The mechanics of a clean change are not difficult to figure out. It’s a base we are building on. We’re now trying another approach.
This is true re the back, especially. If a horse is weak or blocked in the back, or also the shoulder, the flying change could be late or just not a quality change in general. The horse must come through. I also find some focus on their new outside leg coming back, but forget the inside leg. Some horses need this more than they need the aid from the outside leg, if that makes sense.
Walk canter walk should work, in theory, but I had a horse who nailed these transitions and various other exercises but still had trouble with the changes. This was, possibly coincidentally, the horse that learned over a pole. He was convinced this was the way to change. Front then hind. Or a small jump as if a pole was there. Which then moved to a kick out or an odd bounce with his hind end, change the hind, then the front. Showing him that he could come through with the change was tough. Even when set up correctly. There are occasionally ones like him that can so the build up exercises but still have issues with the actual change. If he had never been introduced to the pole, maybe it wouldn’t have been that way, I don’t know. Maybe it works for some horses, but oh he was so stuck on it.
Can you explain the new approach you’re using/the approach this Vaquero cowboy is using? I would be interested and could be informative for others as well.
Associating a flying change at a point in the arena may indeed work for some horses, or be a good first step. It’s interesting because you can use anticipation to your advantage, but it can also present some issues later, but depends on the horse.
While most here know the mechanics of a clean change, we’re just unsure how it happens over a pole. I’ve not seen a clean change (back to front, through, correct) over a pole. As I said before, it may be possible? But I just haven’t seen it and would be interested if anyone has a video or can explain their method.
I do not recommended the pole because fixing a late change later is total hell. However, if someone manages to avoid that, I’m intrigued.
Video of Ingrid Klimke in 2012. At about 33:30 she discusses and then demonstrates doing changes over a cavalletti. Unfortunately she doesnt seem to explain how to go from this to getting proper dressage changes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H-eg8C_4-w&t=1036s
My horse apparently believed that flying changes should only be done in alphabetical order, ie, l-r. R-L required absolute balance, centeredness and all stars and moons to be in alignment. LOL!
However, we are making progress. We are using the pole. But, the change is requested AFTER the pole not over. The pole helps with straight and balanced. Once upon a time I tried OVER the pole changes (with a different horse) and I could never figure that one myself.
She has the cavaletti set up high enough he has to put his hind legs together and jump it out of that small canter. The mechanism there is landing the lead from a jump more than changing over a pole. This doesn’t teach them the change directly as she says but gets them supple in change of bend and also thinking about where that’s done on this figure 8. Because the horse does jump it more than canter over, I don’t think this will necessarily make a front to back change even though it is not so high that all 4 legs are spending much of any time off the ground at the same time.
Sure. BTW, my horse doesn’t get late changes over a pole. So there’s that.
The vaquero cowboy uses aids very different from most dressage riders. You have to be willing to try them. The Silver medalist again tried them with her horse today and while they weren’t successful, her horse was significantly calmer than normal. And he really gave air time to his hind legs, he just couldn’t figure out how to quickly manage that air time.
There are multiple approaches but the idea is that the clean flying change is the “release”. If horses get stressed during the attempt, the rider separates the tension from the act of the flying change. One approach is to ride diagonals and do simple transitions. Then, try a flying lead change. Or, work more of a figure 8. In the canter before the change, move the shoulders to the new inside without letting the inside shoulder fall in. Manage the hind end if the horse wants to throw them in or out. Exaggerate the opposite of what the horse wants to do within reason to keep the horse in actual balance. If the horse misses behind and doesn’t try much, bring the horse to a walk, move the haunches to the new inside (if they want to throw the haunches out) and “take away the hips”. If the horse is prone to getting upset, really take away the hips and wait until the horse stops moving, give them the rein and let them think about things, then try again. Basically, it’s about precisely placing the shoulders and the hind-end to make THAT horse not evade. If he evades or misses, the horse comes down to the walk to really exaggerate what the horse was supposed to do. this makes the correction not associated with the flying change, but what happens if the flying change isn’t done correctly. If the change is done correctly or the horse really tries, the horse goes on to see if it’ll change on it’s own and doesn’t get the more difficult walk transition and placement of shoulders and haunches.
Sometimes the horse experiences the idea of “you ARE going to change” and that creates stress associated with the movement. Sometimes horses are drilled again and again in the change they don’t understand or for whatever reason haven’t figured out what to do. The above approach separates the correction from from the change and gives the horse time to stop and think. But helps the horse associate what to do with their bodies given an aid or at a particular place in the arena. Once they get that, they get that. They then learn that this can happen anywhere but they have to be really paying attention because it actually could happen anywhere. The vaquero tradition is born from working cows and their horses have to expect that something can happen anywhere. There is no pattern to the arena so the horse always has to listen and respond.
Oh, their aids for the change are putting the outside leg back to ask for the change of leg and taking the inside leg off to “open the door” for the change of direction. Changing hips as well.
They can also use leg yielding in the canter to activate the hind legs. There is also canter to the fence and at the last minute change direction, which works for mellow horses but I think will not work for my horse or most dressage horses. I’ve seen western-bred horses learn changes from associating the aids with their decision that they had to change leads.
These aids are very different from dressage aids and I’m exploring them within the context of my training.
Of note, these are approaches to horses who do not “get” changes, for whatever reason, from easy instruction. Also of note, this guy has put flying changes on many horses of different breeds. Also of note, I don’t speak for him and I may be getting some things wrong. Also of note, vaquero riding is born from bullfighting and Spanish ranch horses, it is not dressage, although the two disciplines have converged on many ideas. I am a fan of learning techniques from adjacent disciplines and keeping an open mind. The proof is in the vaquero cowboy’s pudding. He has put lovely rides on my horse and others.
The couple of us who have asked for a video don’t understand how that is physically possible. I am interested to see the mechanics of this with your horse.
I’ve searched around the web and couldn’t find one either, not that my Google skills are stellar. I can think of how it could possibly happen, but I’m not sure if it would be possible in reality and quite frankly I’m not about to try it
That’s interesting, thank you for the explanation re the Vaquero cowboy’s approach. I did struggle with creating more air time with the hind legs with my PRE. He did throw his hips to the right in the right to left change initially, so managing the evasion was key. He’s a very smart horse and something like the approach you mention might’ve worked, I sort of did that, but played with a few things, really.
I personally think the dressage horse, like the cow horse, should expect that something can happen everywhere. Sometimes we change from true canter to counter canter, so it’s not always a change to true canter. The locations are random. We should be able to ride a movement essentially anywhere or from anywhere, IMO. Not just sticking to a pattern. This makes them more versatile and in tune, I think.
I did find leg yielding can activate the hind end, and I use a lot of lateral work (half pass, travers to renvers) to slow down his legs, get more airtime, but keeping the hind end activated and with power.
I don’t think flying change aids need to he exactly the same for every horse either. Mine prefers a whisper and can feel me think flying change, I swear. He does better with the inside leg on though.
Very timely! Vaquero cowboy worked with the Silver medalist, a western trail rider and a woman doing endurance on a Florida Cracker today. They used a line of poles and figure-8s to get clean changes on the QH, the FC and a couple on the Silver medalist’s horse who famously can’t get them (she has put changes on several of her horses and is good at it). Pony would be fourth if not for the changes and she rides regularly (and for a while) with an O/5* judge. Rider approached them at all angles and even over four poles side by side for more air time. Rider can “force” them but pony shuts down mentally/gets very flustered. That’s the case with everything. He can change in front easily but not behind even though he can have significant air time over poles with those hind legs and significant air time when he’s cross firing. Rider has tried half-pass into the change but at the last minute, the horse can drop that new inside shoulder. She found the leg yield made her horse be more honest in the shoulders. Today, her pony was very non-flustered and she talked about how calm and willing he was with the work with this guy’s particular methods.
I asked the guy today about clarification with the hips in positioning in the new direction and the leg off from the new inside leg coming off. He said he might start that way, but once the horse gets it he simply puts his new outside leg back to prevent the hips from falling out. Takes the inside leg off and forward to “invite” the new lead and said it makes the inside seatbone lighter as a cue. I was sitting on a horse at the time I asked (not riding with him) and felt that it made my new inside seatbone heavier so I’m going to have to play with that. He said he trained a previous horse like this and got two tempis on a long rein with this. I’ve seen him ride the horse before she was retired and I totally believe that.
I worked a few times with another Vaquero-trained “cowboy” dressage rider from Germany pre-COVID. He was the Working Equitation champion one year. I didn’t know much about working equitation and he said most of his clients are straight dressage clients in Europe, but he spent years in Spain training with vaqueros and brought a whole new approach to training dressage that I’ve never seen before and so improved my horse’s responsiveness and ability to carry himself. Working Equitation is based on vaquero cow work and bullfighting. The approaches are very different from straight dressage but has the same end goal. Iberian horses excel at this.
I don’t know enough about vaquero stuff to really speak about it, I’m just relaying my understanding of it.
I ask for the canter mostly with my inside seat and thigh and bringing the outside leg back. I think I can master the leg-off approach if I can get my body to respond the way my brain is telling it to! At least, I’ll try if for a while.
I think most horses can figure it out easily, even if it is just swapping leads. I think others need a different approach that gets the change clean AND keeps the horse relaxed in performing it. That can take quite a tool bag for some horses.
Can you explain why you don’t think that is possible?
I’ve gotten them with my horse and today I watched a Silver medalist get one with her very difficult horse and then watched a QH and a Florida Cracker get them over a line of poles. i wished I had my phone on me. Please explain why you can’t understand the mechanics of a flying change over a pole and maybe I can help. If you train it right, the pole just adds airtime and the time for the horse to think about things if the rider does their job. Normally. The Silver medalist did everything right and it was so interesting to watch her horse think about changing behind but then not.
What don’t you understand about this approach? Maybe I can help.
I can’t speak for the others, but I don’t see the mechanics working out for a clean change because if you’re cantering over the pole, most horses don’t jump into the air - they canter their front end over first, then their back end. For a change to happen over the pole, the front end (which gets the air time first) changes first, then the back end when it goes over the pole. Hence the change is by default front to back. I don’t see any way to get the back end to change at the same time as the front since, at any given time, they are doing different things. For there to be enough air time that the change happens clean, the front and hind legs have to be in the air together for long enough, which I don’t see over poles (the hind legs come over as the front legs are hurtling rapidly towards earth). That’s why I think a video (preferably one I can slow down) would help me see how I’m wrong
(Note I’m not demanding a video, since I’m sure the logistics might be difficult to work out with other trainers, someone else’s horse, etc. But if someone happened to find something similar online to share that would be helpful. )
The only way I can imagine a pole helping is putting it at one end, parallel to the long side. Go down center line, leg yield towards it, and then ask for the change once there. Because you’re hitting it “broad side” the front/back conundrum is avoided.
I think some people don’t know what a clean change is.
Okay, I took one for the team and during a little jump school this weekend I got some video of my horse attempting changes over a pole. He ends up on the correct lead in each video but the mechanics are not quite correct IMO.
Video 1 (earlier attempt, more excited, planted both hinds together and jumped the pole): https://youtu.be/5Qz_EshOIAo. This is what I picture when thinking of changing over a pole, a bit of a front-to-back leap and no clear separation of the hind legs in the change.
Video 2 (planted hind legs in original lead rather than together, didn’t jump as high with the hind end): https://youtu.be/5P9dBzVbAik.
Thank you for taking one for the team the horse that I had experience with who learned over a pole typically did his changes, without a pole, like in your first video. It was…interesting.
I wouldn’t those changes are exactly correct for dressage, or really “correct” by most definitions, but aren’t too far off. Yes the lead does change, but isn’t a true and correct flying change/back to front and through over the back and whatnot. I found it incredibly difficult to transition a horse from this pole style to correct. Could’ve partially been that particular horse, but he learned it that way and that was “the way” and it was easier, in his mind, I think.
For a jumping horse (jumpers) and those only competing up to second level, or even lower level eventing, I suppose the change can be irrelevant and you never really have to develop a correct one. Perhaps you should, but if you don’t, it doesn’t really matter so much I suppose.
Ok, now I am seeing this possibility. When @Libby2563 gets the change, the horse swaps in hind before the hind end goes over the pole. I think this does get you much closer to a correct change. And does expand upon the benefit of doing poles altogether, which is that they often do have to put hind legs more together so as to not to split the rail with the hind legs. So, this helps with sit and collection as well as teaching good jumping mechanics. I can’t say I’ve ever seen a horse change over a pole by changing the hind legs at that last sit stride, but here it happened for sure. Very interesting. Thanks for taking one for the team!
and quite frankly I’m not about to try it 
