Flying Change Hell Support Group

[J-Lu]

@CanteringCarrot

@J-Lu

Not sure why you’re responding since I apparently don’t know what a flying change is. Never ridden or trained them ever. I’m obviously such a loser and thanks for changing the nature of this thread.

The Silver Medalist figures into this thread upstream. And on another thread.

I’m sorry that you feel that way. I really was looking for constructive conversation and had genuine questions stemming from curiosity over a few things you said. I was not doubting your abilities really, but just wanted to know more about your method since you had said you had gotten clean and not late changes over a pole. It hasn’t been my experience that this is common, so naturally I was intrigued. If you’re not open for discussion on that particular matter, then fine.

@Jealoushe I think she just introduced this individual as “Silver Medalist” to show she has some form of credentials and is a competent rider. I could be wrong, but that’s just the vibe I got. No idea who or what silver medal.

Thanks. I appreciated your questions and was not responding to you. I presented this as A TOOL for horses who were difficult to teach. Yep, I mentioned a USDF Silver medalist worked it also for her currently difficult horse and she’s put changes on many horses. As I stated, “my” method wasn’t working for my current horse so I’m thinking outside of the box. Comments came in that perhaps I didn’t know what a flying change was and Libby “took one for the team” to show the mechanics of changes over a pole.

NO ONE uses this as a first approach to training changes in dressage, as I’ve said multiple times. If you’ve done it long enough (not saying I have but I know many who have taught flying changes for a long time) you will encounter horses that just don’t get it or get quite anxious. How do you address that particular horse’s needs? Having a large tool box when you’re training horses gives you more tools to get to the same outcome despite how you got there. I don’t understand why that isn’t a given here. You can’t FORCE horses to do something that fits into a limited training scope. That often doesn’t end well.

Someone posted a video of Tristan Tucker recently on some thread in dressage playing a bumbling rider in a freestyle. His tempi aids are very similar to the aids the Vaquero Cowboy uses - watch his legs given my explanation above.

Lastly, this thread started as a really funny thread where people joked about the problems they were having or have had with teaching changes. It took an unfortunate turn.

Thanks! I used poles to calmly teach my horse the aids for changes today without fluster. Because my horse hasn’t responded to MY METHOD in the past. He’s very sensitive and mentally riles up easily, so this method is helping his brain focus and associate a rail with a change. Next, I will take the rails away and he’ll associate the change with that part of the arena/that exercise. Because that works for him in his training to get a concept. Once he gets a concept that is difficult for him mentally, he can do it anywhere.

I know many people on this thread couldn’t or wouldn’t have ridden this horse so you’re going to have to trust me.

Anyway, this used to be a fun thread.

[J-Lu]

Of course you do.

[cnm161]

The day after I said that clean R to L changes required signed and notarized act of God, but L to R is clean and easy:

Exactly the opposite of that happened. Go figure.

[Jealoushe]

@J-Lu

Of course you do.

Good one
Who wouldn’t? You won’t explain who or what this “silver medalist” is so I’m left to scratch my head.

[the_sandiest_shoes]

I have a thing with my Lusitano where it’ll be “clean” )as confirmed by the judges comments in the ring), but he will still get his back legs not very separated, so a 6. It’s been so tricky to figure out how to get him relaxed and collected in the right way to find the bigger jump and separation…getting there more often now but so hard for me to feel if it’s correct all the time.

I wish I found this thread earlier. I’ve been here with my mare for 4-5 months for sure. She’s so different than my gelding in her changes trickery - she won’t ever buck or freak out, but she will just canter disunited for ages, or put in half a trot step in the oddest way. We had a big break through this week where all of sudden they’re 90% all clean (?!), on my aids (?!!?) and both directions. The difference in success is so sudden I’m stunned - really feels like we just suddenly understood each other. This is how simple changes went for us too - struggle, struggle, struggle then CLICK. hoping we don’t suddenly regress again (we had a fun 1.5 week phase of being unable to even canter a 20 meter circle left lead).

[cnm161]

I don’t want to brag (hahahah but seriously I have the best boy), but so far this year we’ve had nothing but clean changes that were on the aids.

Because I know when I’m playing with fire, I only asked for one change each way and didn’t ride yesterday. But still. What’s that over there? Is it light at the end of this tunnel? Stay tuned.

[endlessclimb]

Yeah but… it’s only been three days.

Congrats on your success!

[cnm161]

I am super confident in my n=1 sample size. Clearly this is a horse that is now ready for 3rd. Next week: GP.

I mean the theme of this thread is “and then your hopes come crashing down” but clearly one of us has to break through to the other side, right? Right?

[RJC]

Yay!!! That’s great! Find. That. Light.

We had some early success before Christmas but overdid it, which then devolved into “We no longer know how to canter. Counter canter is not a thing. Leapy Leapy, trot steps,” where we lived for a solid week and a half.

Trainer and I discovered that with this horse, we need to do a couple changes and stop there. It also helps when I don’t overthink the timing and make my aids super hesitant (who would have thought…that clear aids would help?)

Now we’ve had a 100% success rate the last several rides of asking for a change and getting one, but the quality can still improve (which largely means me getting him straight EVERY time). But I’m thrilled that he understands the aids!

Now that I have also heavily jinxed myself, I expect carnage and mayhem in my ride tomorrow.

Oh and through this heavy canter-laden journey, I seem to have misplaced my medium trot. Ah well. It’s probably hiding somewhere with my extendeds.

[the_sandiest_shoes]

Congrats on your success!!!

I showed off the changes with my mare in my clinic yesterday and all but one of them were clean and on the aids. I had a little party for myself. I didn’t quite fully believe they were working when I was riding by myself, even though they felt good and looked good in the mirror.

Once more praying this doesn’t regress terribly.

Then of course she also did about five of them in a row of her own volition coming down the long side. Clean though!!! Oh my god!!! But back to some new work to learn we can canter without swapping, even if I dare touch my leg at the girth. We semi had canter half pass before and now we have a sideways line of unintentional tempis.

Oh and the thing that helped us confirm these the most were walk-canter-walk transitions in shoulder in. Something I saw in a video. Being very picky and about instant jump into canter and holding the position. Hard as hell but when I get a few really nice ones, I cross a short diagonal and tend to get a beautiful change.

[cnm161]

Yes I’m looking forward to today’s ride wherein the canter is either the only attainable gait, or is entirely out of reach. Not sure which it’ll be, but odds are not good that I’ll get on and have everything go smoothly. Sandiest_shoes, I’ve also been in your sandy shoes re: changes instead of halfpass (last week); every lower leg aid became a flying change. Also every breath. Also once when I blinked.

@the_sandiest_shoes

Oh and the thing that helped us confirm these the most were walk-canter-walk transitions in shoulder in. Something I saw in a video. Being very picky and about instant jump into canter and holding the position. Hard as hell but when I get a few really nice ones, I cross a short diagonal and tend to get a beautiful change.

I really like this exercise. It’s also useful in t/w/t and c/t/c and has given me some of the best trot mediums across a short diagonal.

[the_sandiest_shoes]

Still holding strong - the changes seemed so good my occasional trainer asked me to do a line like from 4-1 and no that didn’t “fly” (or a series of changes happened but I admitted only one of them was my idea). I realize they are there, but they are far from being totally on my aids. I’m happy they look better than they feel - this mare is subtle about her bracing but now I know what to focus on. But oh boy we’ve come so so far when I think back to where we were two months ago.

And my gelding is getting better too with his - he’s farther along but his changes are trickier because he can get “together” with his back end in a change that’s clean but not great. Focused on non-stop, very picky canter transitions, where he jumped into canter exactly when I asked but without and “barging”/ fast feeling. That really helped get smoother, big “separation” changes. One day at a time!

[stryder]

Canter-piaffe-canter transitions can help make sure horse is square and you’re precise in the timing of your ask.

[cnm161]

In “it gets better, slowly” news, my changes are now on the aids 80% of the time and clean 80% of the time (although both on the aids AND clean is about a 60/40 proposition unless my set up is impeccable).

How’s everyone else hanging in there?

[RJC]

That’s such a better update than I have! bahaha

After some early success, we have fallen far from grace. I had a non-riding related back issue pop up, which caused me to lock my pelvis during rides, which caused my saintly horse to develop a habit of kicking out when I applied leg. Suddenly our flying changes were skip changes. While working through that, we hit a couple weeks of minimal riding due to intense cold.

I am able to ride properly again and we are no longer kicking out, but while no one was asking for lead changes of any kind, pony developed a solid habit of doing skip changes at will. I am hoping we can get the flying changes back once we start actually working on them again, but… this is not great.

Canter quality has improved significantly though! We have a canter half pass that doesn’t feel like flailing but still manages to go sideways. So that’s…something.

Is there shame in showing second level for the next 15 years? That feels viable right now. We could be freestyle champions.

[the_sandiest_shoes]

It is such an up and down battle, no? My mare no longer is ever late behind, but is now sometimes early behind (not the worst) or clean changes preceded by a half hop or skip (ugh). It is the most subtle hesitation that even my clinician had a hard time deciding which changes were technically clean

IMG_4521

IMG_4525

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It’s a lot of anticipation and her canter needs more strength/ I need to keep her through the back. When she grabs her head she does the hop. So we went from mostly late, to mostly clean, to this new thing. It’s still progression but my goodness. What fun. Examples below.

[Junebug125]

omg mine does that half step thing too and is so convinced it’s the right answer!

[exvet]

We too are still working on consistency. Anticipation has been a bit of an issue but not uncontrollable. I knew I was going to create a bit of an issue because I needed to impress upon my guy the need for more jump in the canter. Of course, some of this is a strength issue which is improving but also an issue of “energy conservation typical of a pony breed”. With ‘the need for jump and forward’ being the focus of a few rides I did have to visit the ‘anticipation and rushing/running monster’ but only briefly. Now we seem to be more consistently getting forward, clean, big changes that are on the aids. So, now I’m getting fewer ‘stutter’ steps as long as I’m riding without over thinking things too much. My hope and goal is to be able to ride third in competition by April. The last few rides and lessons have been giving me hope that it’s more probable than possible.

[cnm161]

@RJC

Is there shame in showing second level for the next 15 years? That feels viable right now. We could be freestyle champions.

This feels like a viable option. Strongly believe there needs to be a Nearly Bronze medal. Flint? Tin?

[PonyApocalypse19]

Ministry for Silly Flying Change Equitation checking in.
We’ve had some tough cold weather so consistency hasn’t been our friend and I recently bruised the snot out of my Achilles tendon because my tall boots gave up. So riding has been hit or miss since the end of December.
I’ve been playing with the one-tempi’s about once a week on both horses. My horse with flying changes pre-installed wiped out in turn out so he’s been on the injured reserve list. The other one I’m trying to sneak in a day when the weather cooperates; he’s been a saint. Although we did have some verified success. I struggle with knowing if the tempi actually happened or were we just hopping around? He’s been switching in front, but I have no clue if the hind legs are doing their thing. I was able to have someone watch and we did three in a row before I realized we did two! Then the following week my timing was off so not so much luck. I was really hoping to figure it out on my other horse who is very forgiving so I could get the aid timing down and work on my equitation. But no such luck - it’s the blind leading the blind.
At least I’m not looking to show anything that requires one-tempi’s this year. It’s a strength building and fitness year after the rough end of last year (another leg surgery for one of the horses). So far teaching the ones hasn’t messed up the other tempi’s! Here’s hoping for some good weather!