Flynn Sport Horses/Matt Flynn

[AltersAreUs]

@gottagrey

The definition of extortion has been supplied on this thread and the reasons why the OP’s posts potentially meet the criteria. I believe they are on the 1st couple of pages. .
I agree with Denali’s post #83 and 85

Yeah but Florida’s courts don’t agree with that take on it. There have been numerous online-based extortion cases there, including against yelp for reportedly offering to remove negative reviews in exchange for money from the businesses being reviewed. None of those have been found in the favor of the person claiming extortion against the person/company posting experiences and reviews online.

Here, this discusses how Florida courts view “malice”.
"One of the things that a criminal defense attorney will look for is whether the state can prove that there existed “actual malice.” In this regard, notice that Florida Statute Section 836.05 requires proof that the accused “maliciously” threatened the alleged victim. Actual malice requires a showing beyond a reasonable doubt that you acted with "ill will, hatred, spite or an evil intent. (See: Calamia v. State) Whereas simple “Legal Malice requires only proof that your acts were committed intentionally and without lawful cause.”
http://defensehelp.typepad.com/russo…n-the-law.html .

From the Calamia v State records - "The word maliciously means intentionally and without lawful justification."

Pretty sure threatening to tell everyone your ex-boss doesn’t pay his workers what they’re owed unless he pays you what you’re owed is a whole different kettle of fish from threatening to post nude photos of your ex unless she pays you a bunch of money. One has a lawful cause, the other is nothing but spite.

[jenn1120]

fordtraktor There is proof of this being a pattern for Mr. Flynn. Either by the private messages I have received from others prior to me and by others who chose to post publicly here. One woman he had done this to who requested her amintiy did report him the DOL and in doing was made aware he also has NEVER paid any employment taxes. As for myself as I stated in earlier posts I did send Mr.Flynn 2 texts requesting my check, then a follow up email when he was non responsive to those 3 attempts I subsequently sent him an additional text days later making him aware that I did not here from him that following Monday I would file a small claims action. That as well, went unanswered. As for a formal demand letter no I did not do that. It wasn’t til I began to post my dealings with Mr. Flynn did Mr. Flynn then reach out to my BF to then pay me. My BF reached out to Mr Flynn in weeks prior ONCE seeking my pay It was a professional conversation no threats cursing or insults where involved. Mr. Flynn threatened he would obtain a restraining order against ME if I attempted to try and retrieve my pay ever again. RO’s aren’t designed to hide behind paying an outstanding debt and it is an insult to people who actually need one due to a violent situation for Mr. Flynn to confuse the true nature of an RO. People have referred to my posting my situation with Mr. Flynn as extortion. I beg to differ. I did it in no way to strong arm him it was my intention to file a small claims case any way. I did it to let members of the horse community aware of Mr. Flynns unethical business practices. In doing so others came forward too. Unsure why people think that is a bad thing. Preventing if from happening again would be a terrible thing to some people apparently(said with an enormous amount of sarcasm).

[jenn1120]

Denali6298 Mr. Flynn has had more more than enough opportunity to tell his side of the story on this site. I respect his right to not so if he chooses. After the amount of other employees he has done this to that have now come forward its extremely doubtful at best. But I welcome it nonetheless.

[jenn1120]

gottagrey where did I ever say I didn’t need the $? Apparently your not aware how racing works. For our operation and everyone is different but out of the over $350K the horses we trained earned in 2017. We get 10% of whatever the horse makes when finishing 1st-3rd the owner gets the rest. If the horse runs worse than 3rd we don’t get 10% of any $ earned by that horse in that particular race. We also charge $70 a day per horse. Out of that we pay everything except the blacksmith and the vet bills. We pay hay,grain,straw,employees,workman comp. In our case we also bill the owner for supplements and race day expenses. Every trainer and owners agreements differ slightly but the 10% is standard. We make a living better than most do an I’m appreciative of that. However, at anytime I have anywhere between1-2 show horses of my own to support. $583.00 isn’t a hugely significant amount of $. Will my lights get shut off,my car or truck get repoed, or any other bill go unpaid because of $583.00 no it won’t. It won’t for me but what about the.person that has worked for Mr. Flynn in the past or will in the future and not paying them those things will happen to them. ???

[jenn1120]

Denali6298 I did not go on a tirade on the sponsors page or perhaps what I consider a tirade. I explained what occurred used no foul or obscene language and did not demand they drop Mr. Flynn or even insuated such.I explained my situation with Mr. Flynn a rider they support in a statement almost verbatim to my original post here. I’m sorry if you feel someone who sponsors riders shouldn’t be made aware of unethical business practices of a rider they support. It is now widely known that Mr. Flynn has a pretty long history of such behaviour. If Mr Flynn chose to continually beat employees out of there pay this wouldn’t of been an issue the sponsor would of had visited upon them. Mr. Flynn apparently didn’t consider how doing what he’s done repeatedly to his employees might impact his sponsors when somebody eventually came forward publicly.

[jenn1120]

enjoytheride. I have never walked out of a job without giving two weeks notice as I do find it unprofessional as well. However, working for Mr. Flynn and the way he chooses to speak to people is something I wasn’t going to allow myself to be suspected to for a nanosecond longer. He didn’t deserve two minutes notice much less 2 weeks. Every other person except for one who contacted me said they left in the same of very similar way as I did because its literally intolerable.The one person who did give two weeks notice he never paid her the 2 weeks pay. I have 100% indisputable proof of this incident between her and Mr. Flynn. I actually didn’t think his arrogance could be anything worse than what I personally encountered but for her it was worse. Nobody has the right to speak to anyone like that. Trust me I wasn’t tolerating his behaviour another second.

[jenn1120]

I have no intentions on speaking of this further. Mr Flynn has reached out to make attempts to pay me. However when those attempts where to be finalized he chose to not be available or has ignored attempts to get a check. So at this time he hasn’t fulfilled his expressed desire to see that I get paid. Debating this any further is unproductive. Until payment is made proceeding in small claims and other channels as some have suggested will be what I choose to do going forward.

[Finn_Dixie]

@2LaZ2race

I don’t think I did…

You’ve paraphrased and manipulated my words to suit your argument. It’s no wonder you support the OP’s tirade.

The OP has every right to expose the truth but the basis of her argument holds no real facts and therefore no credibility.

Personal opinion: Common sense isn’t so common.

[gottagrey]

@AltersAreUs

Yeah but Florida’s courts don’t agree with that take on it. There have been numerous online-based extortion cases there, including against yelp for reportedly offering to remove negative reviews in exchange for money from the businesses being reviewed. None of those have been found in the favor of the person claiming extortion against the person/company posting experiences and reviews online.

Here, this discusses how Florida courts view “malice”.
"One of the things that a criminal defense attorney will look for is whether the state can prove that there existed “actual malice.” In this regard, notice that Florida Statute Section 836.05 requires proof that the accused “maliciously” threatened the alleged victim. Actual malice requires a showing beyond a reasonable doubt that you acted with "ill will, hatred, spite or an evil intent. (See: Calamia v. State) Whereas simple “Legal Malice requires only proof that your acts were committed intentionally and without lawful cause.”
http://defensehelp.typepad.com/russo…n-the-law.html .

From the Calamia v State records - "The word maliciously means intentionally and without lawful justification."

Pretty sure threatening to tell everyone your ex-boss doesn’t pay his workers what they’re owed unless he pays you what you’re owed is a whole different kettle of fish from threatening to post nude photos of your ex unless she pays you a bunch of money. One has a lawful cause, the other is nothing but spite.

Offering money to remove an unfavorable review on YELP, Google etc is not the same thing as demanding payment or else, which the OP did.

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Elements of Extortion[/TD]
[TD]Threat: The prosecutor must prove that the defendant made a verbal or written threat. The threat might imply physical harm death, or even psychological harm to the recipient of the threat, to another person, or to property, if the victim does not comply. Alternatively, the defendant might threaten to reveal a secret, accuse the victim of a crime, or otherwise harm the threatened person’s reputation. Under Florida law, the defendant may threaten to do either an unlawful or lawful act. Extortion can include the threat of a legal act, as long as the prosecutor can show that the defendant acted maliciously.

[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida-law/florida-extortion-laws.html

Hopefully the payment issue has been resolved and no legal intervention needs to take place. But these sorts of situations are a good reminder to get stuff in writing and signed by both parties.

[AltersAreUs]

Court decisions don’t exist in a vacuum, they are decided based on precedent. And the current FL precedent on defining “malicious” is Calamia v State .

Proving someone is trying to extort someone else involves proving that they are intentionally trying to harm their reputation (in this case) AND that they have no lawful justification to do so. An employee threatening to out an employer’s refusal to pay wages owed to the employee is lawful justification. Now if she was saying “pay me twenty thousand dollars or else I’ll tell everyone about you not paying your employees” and she was only owed a few hundred or wasn’t an employee at all … yeah, that would likely fall under extortion. As long as she’s just trying to get back what is legally owed her, then it doesn’t fall under extortion.

My point in bringing up the other cases is to give examples that most people would feel ARE extortion that the FL courts decided were not. Turns out, “intentional” and “without lawful justification” both put up some pretty high bars when combined with the 1st amendment freedom of speech.

[gottagrey]

@AltersAreUs

Court decisions don’t exist in a vacuum, they are decided based on precedent. And the current FL precedent on defining “malicious” is Calamia v State .

Proving someone is trying to extort someone else involves proving that they are intentionally trying to harm their reputation (in this case) AND that they have no lawful justification to do so. An employee threatening to out an employer’s refusal to pay wages owed to the employee is lawful justification. Now if she was saying “pay me twenty thousand dollars or else I’ll tell everyone about you not paying your employees” and she was only owed a few hundred or wasn’t an employee at all … yeah, that would likely fall under extortion. As long as she’s just trying to get back what is legally owed her, then it doesn’t fall under extortion.

My point in bringing up the other cases is to give examples that most people would feel ARE extortion that the FL courts decided were not. Turns out, “intentional” and “without lawful justification” both put up some pretty high bars when combined with the 1st amendment freedom of speech.

let’s just hope it doesn’t get all complicated or end up on Judge Judy

[Denali6298]

@gottagrey

let’s just hope it doesn’t get all complicated or end up on Judge Judy

That would be awesome lol

[2LaZ2race]

@Finn Dixie

You’ve paraphrased and manipulated my words to suit your argument. It’s no wonder you support the OP’s tirade.

The OP has every right to expose the truth but the basis of her argument holds no real facts and therefore no credibility.

Personal opinion: Common sense isn’t so common.

What? I don’t even remember what you’re talking about and I don’t really SUPPORT the OP’s tirade. Seems like there’s a history of issues with Matt Flynn and things went badly with the OP. Other than that I don’t know because I wasn’t there.

[CupcakeTough]

I’ve been following this for a few days.

I just want to say that you don’t have to like the OP to believe her. It’s unfortunate that the “likeability” of someone is a determining factor in whether they are believed or garner sympathy.

To address the boyfriend contacting Matt- I am a strong, incredibly independent, feminist and I had the same thing happen to me. I was owed a significant amount of hay that the hay guy didn’t deliver. If he couldn’t get me hay (turns out he’d pissed off suppliers) then I wanted my money back… I was polite, but firm, and I called, texted, and emailed. He completely ghosted me. Later, he called my fiancé. It pissed me off, to be honest, and I was ready to tell him to deal with me and only me, but my fiancé pointed out- what’s more important this or getting your money? Sigh. I don’t know why, but some men get weird about dealing with a strong woman and want to work with someone “man to man” or whatever…

In anycase, whether you like or dislike the OP, her grammar, or whether you think she crossed the line into extortion, it comes down to this:

She worked for Matt Flynn and was not paid. He refused to communicate with her.
To date, she has not been paid.

Others have come forward to corroborate with their own experiences.

Thanks, OP, for the head’s up.

[NCRider]

But that’s not true at all. There hasn’t been any sort of corroboration that would stand up to questioning.
We have no way of knowing if the OP is telling the truth about anything including whether or not other people have reached out to her. She says it happened to other people. Adding that doesn’t add much because it still relies on her credibility.
The only first hand stories of it happening to other people are from anonymous new posters who said “same thing happened to me” who could very easily be house guests. Based on how the OP has presented herself here, I wouldn’t put it past her.

The only thing giving the OP’s story any credibility at all IMHO is that a longtime poster has said that she’s heard it about it happening to other people she knows. That makes me think that there’s likely some truth to the fact that the OP didn’t get paid.
But nothing in how the OP presents herself online makes her credible. There’s no one to blame for that other than herself.

[WildLittleWren]

@NCRider

But that’s not true at all. There hasn’t been any sort of corroboration that would stand up to questioning.
We have no way of knowing if the OP is telling the truth about anything including whether or not other people have reached out to her. She says it happened to other people. Adding that doesn’t add much because it still relies on her credibility.
The only first hand stories of it happening to other people are from anonymous new posters who said “same thing happened to me” who could very easily be house guests. Based on how the OP has presented herself here, I wouldn’t put it past her.

The only thing giving the OP’s story any credibility at all IMHO is that a longtime poster has said that she’s heard it about it happening to other people she knows. That makes me think that there’s likely some truth to the fact that the OP didn’t get paid.
But nothing in how the OP presents herself online makes her credible. There’s no one to blame for that other than herself.

This. Yes we all have freedom of speech, but how you USE that freedom of speech definitely dictates your true character

[soloudinhere]

@AltersAreUs

Court decisions don’t exist in a vacuum, they are decided based on precedent. And the current FL precedent on defining “malicious” is Calamia v State .

Proving someone is trying to extort someone else involves proving that they are intentionally trying to harm their reputation (in this case) AND that they have no lawful justification to do so. An employee threatening to out an employer’s refusal to pay wages owed to the employee is lawful justification. Now if she was saying “pay me twenty thousand dollars or else I’ll tell everyone about you not paying your employees” and she was only owed a few hundred or wasn’t an employee at all … yeah, that would likely fall under extortion. As long as she’s just trying to get back what is legally owed her, then it doesn’t fall under extortion.

My point in bringing up the other cases is to give examples that most people would feel ARE extortion that the FL courts decided were not. Turns out, “intentional” and “without lawful justification” both put up some pretty high bars when combined with the 1st amendment freedom of speech.

One could also argue that threatening to destroy someone’s reputation over a relatively paltry sum is in fact without lawful justification due to the proportion. You’re right - law doesn’t exist in a vacuum and new law is made every day because the “totality of the circumstances” may be different enough for the precedent to be questioned.

And of course, none of this says anything about someone just making your life miserable and burying you in legal fees with a lawsuit just to make a point. Even if you don’t win, you can still do a pretty good job wasting a lot of time and money.

[AltersAreUs]

@soloudinhere

One could also argue that threatening to destroy someone’s reputation over a relatively paltry sum is in fact without lawful justification due to the proportion. You’re right - law doesn’t exist in a vacuum and new law is made every day because the “totality of the circumstances” may be different enough for the precedent to be questioned.

And of course, none of this says anything about someone just making your life miserable and burying you in legal fees with a lawsuit just to make a point. Even if you don’t win, you can still do a pretty good job wasting a lot of time and money.

Well, depends how the “destroy someone’s reputation” is done. If she’s sticking to her personal experience (someone doesn’t pay their employees), well, that someone destroying their own reputation. You don’t want the rep of being a lousy boss who steals employee labor, pay your employees. If she tells people the truth and has evidence, that’s all legal. It only get iffy if she either starts making shit up (libel/slander) or if she threatens to tell lies about the person (extortion).

As long as she has a lawful grievance and sticks to the facts, none of those apply. Turns out, telling the truth about someone’s actions is perfectly legal in this country, whether anyone else think the reason for it is justified or not.

And seriously, if this is indeed his MO to be such a bad employer that people routinely leave the job after only days/hours and then he doesn’t pay them for that work? That deserves to be outed. That’s wage theft, plain and simple. Too bad FL is so bad about actually coming down on employers for it.

[jenn1120]

NCRider Correct me if I’m wrong but you have basically assumed I am lying about what transpired between Mr. Flynn and myself and also have either lied or made up some fake account pretending to be other employees he has done this to. First let me say what happened between Mr. Flynn and I was very simple I worked 7 days, quit because of his outrageous manner and how he chose to treat me, he refused to pay me. There isn’t more to the story its that simple. At the time of making my original post on here, as well as, his sponsors FB page I had no idea he had done this to a handful of others. I knew of and was told about two but had no names to verify what I was told although the similarities of there situation and mine where to parallel to simply be a coincidence. Once this post and the one I posted on his sponsors FB page several other people came forward to me either publicly or contacted me privately. Did a few asked me for animinty?..absolutely. They have done so because they continue to work in 3 Day. I have respected there request for such and didn’t feel I needed to ignore or disrespect there requests to bolster my own story and make it more believable. It was not my intention as others have posted to “ruin” Mr. Flynn my original intention was to make others aware in the future that this is a pattern. Now that several others have contacted me it goes FAR beyond patterned behaviour I feel it speaks to him as person as a whole and lack of moral fiber not just in business. However, that’s my personal opinion. As for people who you in so many words called “fictitious” I have ALL the documentation to back up such a claim. I have also learned that Mr. Flynn is extremely disliked amongst his colleagues and fellow riders. I have learned this through very respectable riders in 3 Day reaching out to me as well and also have documention to anyone who chooses to think I’m am lying about that. Ill be more than happy to substantiate through PM. Some have chose to comment I have tried to use the internet as extortion or a strong arm tactic to force Mr.Flynn to pay me. Yes I absolutely did text Mr. Flynn and put him on notice I would make his refusal to pay me public information. Regarding that it was in no way a threat I was stating a fact and I did in fact make it public. I’m not quite sure why others feel it’s inappropriate to try warn people so they won’t possibly end up going through this in the future not just with Mr. Flynn but perhaps any scupuolis employer. If Mr. Flynn has chosen. to continually burn other former employees in the past, as well as myself, that’s on Mr. Flynn not me. I have all of the texts and one email I sent Mr Flynm politely asking for a check. Then a text making him aware having not received any reply in the course of 2-3 weeks I made him aware that I would have no choice but to sue him in small calims if he did not respond by that following Monday. I was NOTHING but professional in my attempts to be paid. I did nothing wrong to warrant refusal to pay. If this has somehow affected Mr. Flynn in an adverse manner please remember nobody visited this upon Mr. Flynns doorstep other than him. If he wasn’t devoid of ethical business practices nobody myself included would have a single negative to say publicly or privately. Mr. Flynn called me, as well as, my BF wishing to pay me. I have the phone logs and texts he sent saying exactly that in the text. Wednesday morning he couldn’t be reached to finalize this situation he hasn’t been available since. Even to a very close mutual friend of us both to who has tried and work as an intermediary. I have call logs and texts messages from Mr. Flynn if there are any suspitions that I may be lying about those occurances as well. I will more than happy to post any documentation from this entire situation to prove EVERYTHING I’ve stated here in 100% factual. I will also be happy to include PM with redacted personal info of those wishing aminity. I have not lied about a single thing and being accused of such is disgraceful in my opion. Especially when I am willing to provide ALL documention to back everything I’ve said is the 100% truth. I’m done defending myself.

[jenn1120]

It has just been brought to my attention through someone who has spoken to Mr. Flynn directly today that Mr. Flynn is now claiming I did not work for him for 7 days. I have texts between Mr. Flynn and I and will post them here from Feb.27th-March 5th at 3:34 pm discussing different things relating to the barn, horses, duties etc for each particular day. So if I wasn’t working for him he was texting me about the day to day operations in his barn…when…? Was it after I quit? Before I started ? or while I supposedly only worked for him a couple days, or a few days or was I never there at all? First he told my brother he never agreed to pay me $500 for a 6 day week. However he agreed to pay $583.00 for 7 days when he reached out for settlement. Then he goes silent and comes up with I didn’t or wasn’t even at his barn working for 7 days. What’s next he’s never even heard of me??? I’m not sure who would COMPLETELY lie and make two very bold statements when both can be easily proven otherwise and a lie by Mr. Flynn. So now he’s called me a liar twice. Sadly facts don’t lie and I have them firmly on my side. Perhaps he needs the $583 more than I do because I can’t understand the reasoning behind it being such a torturous event to pay someone what is owed them. Lying about circumstances is beyond a cheap tactic but I suppose that goes along with repeatedly refusing to pay people at all.