When do you know what the “true” color of the foal will be? If after foal molts - when do they typically molt?
If they rub a patch out and it grows back in - is that indicative in any way of what color they really are?
By “true” color, do you mean black vs brown vs chestnut vs gray? If so - then right at birth, with few exceptions.
But if by “true” you mean shade, then typically at birth, but for red-based colors it can actually take a couple of years.
The first foal shed is very unreliable in predicting the adult shade, but IME it tends to be more reliable for black-based colors. By that I mean, the majority of chestnuts and palominos shed VERY dark the first time, conning owners into thinking they have the liver chestnut and the “chocolate palomino” horses. But the vast majority of those don’t mature anywhere NEAR that dark.
Bays and browns tend, IME, to have that first shed closer to their final shade, but still, it’s usually darker. However, brown foals who are born very dark, nearly black, nearly always mature to a dark brown. Likewise for bays - those born bright bay fairly reliably end up that type of bay, maybe a little lighter, maybe a little darker.
interesting. i was thinking my filly was going to be brown… whether with cream gene or not i don’t know… but some rubbed out hair is growing back dark deep black… so it got me thinking… again lol!
fwiw, nobody agrees on what color my filly might be… the closet they come is “dark” 
Pictures! 
Preferably right after birth and dried off, a current one, and whatever you might have in between.
I think you have seen her on FB? She is the Manchester City x Wolkentanz Weser Ems filly
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.174480992565155.45863.100000097655253&type=1&l=e4d5a5f568
if you PM me your FB user name i can show you a couple close ups from today of her bum where she is growing in dark black hair.
oh! and fwiw, none of the pics really show her color - my camera is carp and i usually end up taking pics in the shade or in a stall with the walls reflecting etc. The videos will show her foal color better i think.
Ok, will do. From what I see here, I wonder if she’s smoky brown. She’s at least brown, probably doing to be pretty dark, and if smoky brown I still say a nice dark shade.
here are a couple vids
a couple days old
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILriRYFZ9Jc
maybe a week old?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBprhe6Bu_M
oh and fwiw, your comment is pretty spot on what others say - altho it’s about a toss up between seal brown, smokey brown, brown buckskin (isnt that the same thing?) and buckskin… oh and i get the random dun and grulla too
this is why i was really gobsmacked to see some deep dark true black coming in on her fur.
I am also tempted to think she has a “Sooty” which is more easily seen on light colored horses: Sooty
This article is also really interesting regarding “Seal Brown”
I think the extreme dark end of the spectrum tends to shed the foal coat then fade/bleach a few times before the true mature color can be identified. Dilutes tend to have more seasonal changes.
Definitely not buckskin - she’s definitely brown-based. The dam is definitely brown, though I can’t find any foal pictures (by MC) to get a feel one way or the other on his Agouti status.
Smoky brown can be VERY dark. Yeager GF is a smoky brown, though he still gets incorrectly listed as dark buckskin 
http://www.blacktreefarm.com/pages/yeagergf.html
The whirling dervish video makes me strongly suspect smoky brown (brown with cream). A good shot of her face once that’s nicely shed out might give more light.
Agree. My dark brown foal was very “blonde” by the time he first shed (March baby), he shed very dark, then by July he was already light chocolate again. His new Winter coat started coming in and by Sept he was nearly black. At 2 now, he seems to have settled into a dark, but not “black” dark
Dilutes tend to have more seasonal changes.
Yep! Palominos are especially seasonal, darker in the Summer, lighter in Winter. Usually.
Ive had two black foals–first one was born a dark charcoal-black with a pewter type sheen all over with dark brassy golden ear tufts. She came pretty much in her summer coat and seemed to fade more than shed. She faded to a very dark brownish color with what appeared to be pangare markings. That fall her winter coat came in flat black. The next spring she shed out to a true blue black-no brown at all.
My current foal arrived a blue/ashy charcoal with platinum/white/silvery legs. He has shed to a liver brown/bay color and faded to show sort of pangare markings. Underneath that is black as far as I can tell–I dont really expect to know what shade he’ll finish till next spring.
Our brown buckskin arrived a kind of brownish/black/buff/pewter–all sorta mixed. She matured chocolate brown all over with no black points–but is mealy mouthed/pangare marked-really cool color.
I thought I would post an updated pic of Luna. She is getting very dark!
take a look:
One of these days you’re going to have to get a well-lit, close enough picture for me to try to guess if she’s brown or smoky brown 
Sadly, that faded foal coat doesn’t help, and there’s not enough of her new coat in to tell very well yet. Still, she’s definitely brown-based, still just a matter of whether it’s brown or smoky brown.
well lit? the last pic shows her color pretty well… or does on my monitor anyway… ?
what is funny is on another thread someone is saying she is buckskin.
i think she is black… at least - the hair coming in is deep, dark coal black… maybe that is a phase? it was really surprising to me …
also, we went to inspection on Monday - on Monday she was two toned, now Sat she is so much darker than she was on Monday… very amazing how fast she is changing.
^^No, JB’s right, you need to get a better photo. Too hard to tell and honestly, it’s all a big guess at this point. (but fun to do!) My last one, the farm’s “midwife” kept saying he was going to be liver chestnut on his 1st shed. I knew that was highly unlikely, but kept quiet. He eventually ended up being a very light/bright chestnut color with almost flaxen legs, so it looks like he has 4 white socks (but none of the maintenance, ha!) and the blondest mane and tail you’ve ever seen. Quite striking! It’s so fun to see all the different colors…
DNA color testing would tell you for sure.
Dark Bay or black bay is my guess
The problem is the last picture is back/top lit which makes it very difficult to actually see the tone of the color
It’s probably the only one that makes me lean smoky brown, actually, but that could be because the lighting is skewing the color, or a factor of bleaching, or something else.
“dark bay or black bay” - not a chance this is “bay” Brown, no doubt. The only question is whether cream is also involved
I had a foal born almost the exact same color as mbm’s foal…kind of a buckskin yellow color. His dam is bay and he was by a homozygous dark stallion. This colt shed out black, and at birth, I wouldn’t have ever guessed he would do that.
to me it seems that ponies have much more “fun” colors than horses - not sure if that is true but it seems so!
i have a new real camera so i will continue to try to take a pic that will show her color better. the problem is that none of the pics - except the latest - look anything like what she looks like IRL.
why i don’t know…
anyway, i am having so much fun with this experience Now i get what breeders do this
