Food aggression toward people

[MizzouMom]

I’ve seen horses pin their ears and chase other horses away from their feed, but my new mare pins her ears at whoever is feeding her hay; sometimes she even bares her teeth and makes a threatening move toward us, though she never follows through. Strangely, none of that when she gets her grain - stands there happily eating with no reaction at all to nearby people.

She was turned out with a group of mares for two years before I got her, the alpha mare was a self-mutilating nut job who chased my mare away from her food and water - I even saw the boss mare kick her with both barrels in the behind. My mare was getting very little grain during this time.

The prior owner mentioned her crankiness around the barn and I’m unsure whether the behavior started after she had hock injuries 3 years ago from rolling into a pole fence, resulting in weeks of swelling. Her hocks now are, according to the vet, “stiff as boards”, though she isn’t outright lame.

She is sensitive and reactive to scary things, basically insecure, I’m sure. I find the ugly faces hard to take as I’m trying to build some trust with her and demand her respect. Do I stand my ground and not react, make a sound, scold, drive her away from the food until she plays nice? She is otherwise quite sweet, and her pleasantness with grain is puzzling compared to the demon with hay. I’ve started her on Mare Magic, the raspberry leaf stuff, and she is getting a joint health supplement and biotin too.

Has anyone had success in changing this type of behavior?

[D_Taylor]

Feed aggression toward me is very common in the rescues I help. It is kinda understandable how food obessive and aggressive behavior can evolve when you drag a horse home with a body score of 1 or 2. Then a couple months later they are feeling like a normal horse and the usual calls and pawing at feeding time evolves into pushy or worse.

BUT IT IS NOT ALLOWED!

It helps them greatly if I stay on schedule. They fret when food arrives late.

It also helps to order them to their feeding spot ahead of you. Dirty looks, pawing and other bad manners are dealt with by ordering the horse back from the feeding station and feed not poured into the feeder until manners return.

Attacks are met with a fist or more. These horses have to became solid citizen despite their pasts. They do have to learn to wait their turn and hold on to their manners while doing it. And they are NOT being starved anymore.

I had a little mare start hip checking me when I went in to grain or hay. That is NEVER, EVER allowed. I couple sessions of cane training ended her aggression. And tho I do not think she ever totally got over her anxiety, she did learn to obey, and hold her manners…it was hard for her…BUT IT IS NEVER ALLOWED.

Another point…once they do find their manners and are presented with a meal then do not hang out. Feed them and walk away and let them eat in peace.

And always remember…IT IS NOT ALLOWED!

[coloredcowhorse]

Ditto

Make her step back from wherever you are putting her hay and mind her manners…if she makes a face, pins her ears, bares her teeth the hay doesn’t get put down until she stops…if you have to carry a riding crop with you to reinforce the “step back” part of this do so and be willing to use it. The instant the ears come forward and the face becomes pleasant put the hay down and walk away so that she gets rewarded for the desired behavior. What often happens to get this going is the horse gets pushy and people instantly drop the hay for them and get out…so the reward is for the unacceptable behavior rather than the desired one. Horses also know exactly how to escalate their behavior (give 'em an inch and they’ll take a mile thing) and it usually get even quicker responses from humans who don’t want to get bitten.

If she does make a move on you make certain that she is backed up rather forcefully (my favorite “guru” trainer says you have 3 seconds to convince her she will die…face/head off limits but you can and should get after her seriously for that short period and then just drop the response…it’s over…and go on as if nothing happened…mimics the swift and pointed response of a boss mare at some upstart that thinks he/she can make threats to the boss)…aggression toward a human is not tolerated in any way.

[coloredhorse]

I’ve had a couple like this (one is still in my backyard and there to stay until the end of her days). It seems to be related to anxiety, in the cases I’ve seen.

The best fix I’ve found is the “ears” command. No yummy food until I see ears and a pleasant expression. A carrot or peppermint or something that inspires pricked ears and an “aren’t I cute” expression is the place to start. It won’t take her long to figure it out. I like this better than a whip correction in cases where the uglines is anxiety-driven because a strong correction can spur more anxiety.

You will have to read your horse to determine the best course of action. “Ears” will work quickly if anxiety is the cause of the nasty behavior.

[MizzouMom]

Thanks for your thoughts on this - I do think she is an anxious horse, and the faces are much worse after she has the hay in front of her, if you linger.

Of course, I don’t like a food server hanging over me while I’m eating either, so maybe I should consider it a victory if I don’t see the behavior immediately and just walk away while I’m ahead.

[naturalequus]

[QUOTE=MizzouMom;5496522]
I’ve seen horses pin their ears and chase other horses away from their feed, but my new mare pins her ears at whoever is feeding her hay; sometimes she even bares her teeth and makes a threatening move toward us, though she never follows through.[/QUOTE]

…but she’s clearly telling you, that one day she might.

She is sensitive and reactive to scary things, basically insecure, I’m sure.

This would definitely have something to do with it as well, so I would focus on - in addition to addressing the food issue itself directly - building her confidence. Exercises, patterns, situations where she relies on your leadership and builds confidence in herself.

Do I stand my ground and not react, make a sound, scold, drive her away from the food until she plays nice?

Personally, I’d put her by herself so I could work with her one-on-one (where you are not dealing with the distractions of other horses or where she is thinking she has to compete), especially as her only food source. I would work on earning her respect on the ground via ground exercises and patterns, then I would translate that also to feed time. I would ask her to move her feet whenever she makes her ugly face. Asking her to move her feet causes the wrong answer to be hard, and also earns her respect just in moving her feet (as any herd leader would do). In addition, I would simply hold the food and stand and wait (as long as it took) for a happy face. Then she would be asked to respect my space - as per usual - as I laid the food out. This has to be done carefully though and in increments to an extent though. Ie, if you just get an ear flicker the first time, reward. Next time you ask for ears forward a second longer. And so on and so forth. I would increasingly ask for more space and for her to wait longer before she delved into the food after I had laid it out. Don’t do it all at once though!

ETA: as far as her making ugly faces after she has the hay, that is a no-no in my books as well. It’s “my” hay. BUT, that said, no one likes to be bothered while they eat. Imo I would ask for her respect while she eats in small increments. Start off by standing at a distance that is okay. Then move a little closer, ask her to move her feet when she makes an ugly face, and retreat when she “tries” (reward the slightest try!). Ask for increasingly longer periods of time and at increasingly smaller distances. Also, if you earn her respect outside of feed time, that will also start to translate over.

[CrimsonInClover]

When I brought my mare home in December (who was saved from slaughter) she was very aggressive toward me when it came to her grain. She could care less about hay, so that was never a problem. Basically I made her move her feet. She was not allowed to come near her feed bucket until she pleasant. She would strike out at me with her front hoof, so I would send her to the back of her stall with a rope. I also would hang around her while she was eating and the first sign of aggression, she would be sent away again. Now I can groom her as well as pick her feet while she is eating. Aggression is in no way acceptable, but I have a 5 year old daughter who is at the barn with me most of the time so her behavior had to change quick!

Edited to add: I also work with her on a regular basis to respect my space in general, so this helps translate to feeding time. She also behaves during feeding time if she is out or in.

[SMF11]

One horse here was like that – and fits the profile (was almost starved etc and is a high strung tb). Not only are bad manners not allowed, but also after two years here, he seems to understand everything is OK. He almost reflexively pins his ears when I approach if he’s eating grain, but I usually stand quietly and soothingly say “It’s OK . . .” and it is as if he goes “Oh, yeah. I forgot, it IS ok. Oh, yeah, I like this person” and he puts his ears forward and I scratch him.

You have to be able to read your horse. What I describe might get you bit by another horse, I just know this guy. But once she figures out she isn’t going to starve, or have to fight for her food, she may get around to getting over it. But I agree with everyone else, you have to be the alpha and she cannot think of hurting you.

[D_Taylor]

[QUOTE=MizzouMom;5497153]
Thanks for your thoughts on this - I do think she is an anxious horse, and the faces are much worse after she has the hay in front of her, if you linger.

Of course, I don’t like a food server hanging over me while I’m eating either, so maybe I should consider it a victory if I don’t see the behavior immediately and just walk away while I’m ahead.[/QUOTE]

Yes it would be a battle victory if she accepts a meal without evil manners and you just walk away with no consequence.

She eventually does need to accept your presence at any time but that is a battle for another day.

Wars are won one battle at a time. When you can walk up to her at any time whether she has feed in front of her or not then you have won the war. Do not think that will happen over night, do not let your guard down, but it should be your goal.

You said it yourself that she is new. These things take a little time and not every horse has the same learning curve. One of my most problematic feed aggressive horses did not become feed aggressive at all until I had for for 4 mths and packed a couple hundred pounds on her. Poor thing just could not help herself when hay was not present 24X7, but too fat is not healthy either and she had to learn. She is still a bit squirrely about feeding time but improving and understands there are limits to tolerated behavior. She gets it right most the time now.

[MizzouMom]

More helpful ideas, thanks! This mare had anxiety and respect issues when I got her in October which were not helped by the trainer who had her for the past 4 months. Brought her home 3 weeks ago after a falling out at the barn, at least 6 weeks earlier than I had planned (I’d hoped to avoid the wet weather and poor footing) - so the paddock is a mess and it’s hard to get out there and really stand up to her without losing my boots in the muck.

My last serious riding happened before the groundwork revolution of the 80’s, so I’m just learning about that and we’re beginning it at home. The trainer never mentioned groundwork - was happy to let me groom and lunge her and pay the bills. For four months. Stupid me.

We are already more comfortable together, and I really want to get her over this crappy attitude about her hay. I think you’re all right that the groundwork will help. At this point she still doesn’t know me well enough to trust me.

[MizzouMom]

Update

Got another good idea from a woman at the feed store - horse people can be incredibly generous with helpful advice - she suggested trying a special treat when armed with the hay, and darned if it doesn’t work.

This mare has never had treats apparently - clumsy about catching on to the idea - and so with a mind toward not creating a nipping monster I’m trying to avoid hand feeding them. However, armed with peppermints I approach with the hay now and show her the candy, then put it down in the trough before I hand her the hay. She has a whole new attitude - happy faces, ears up, general demeanor of “what hay, where’s the peppermint?”.

I walk away while she is still looking pleasant and starting the hay, and feel like I’m a winner. It may take months before the happy faces are there even without a peppermint, but I think I can live with that.

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=MizzouMom;5496522]
I’ve seen horses pin their ears and chase other horses away from their feed, but my new mare pins her ears at whoever is feeding her hay; sometimes she even bares her teeth and makes a threatening move toward us, though she never follows through. Strangely, none of that when she gets her grain - stands there happily eating with no reaction at all to nearby people.

She was turned out with a group of mares for two years before I got her, the alpha mare was a self-mutilating nut job who chased my mare away from her food and water - I even saw the boss mare kick her with both barrels in the behind. My mare was getting very little grain during this time.

The prior owner mentioned her crankiness around the barn and I’m unsure whether the behavior started after she had hock injuries 3 years ago from rolling into a pole fence, resulting in weeks of swelling. Her hocks now are, according to the vet, “stiff as boards”, though she isn’t outright lame.

She is sensitive and reactive to scary things, basically insecure, I’m sure. I find the ugly faces hard to take as I’m trying to build some trust with her and demand her respect. Do I stand my ground and not react, make a sound, scold, drive her away from the food until she plays nice? She is otherwise quite sweet, and her pleasantness with grain is puzzling compared to the demon with hay. I’ve started her on Mare Magic, the raspberry leaf stuff, and she is getting a joint health supplement and biotin too.

Has anyone had success in changing this type of behavior?[/QUOTE]

ignore it

[Mustang_Amber]

I fed my mustang mate Amber tonight and she acted very aggressively towards me. She bare s her teeth at me and tried to nip at me. I notice this behaviors whenever it is feeding time. Amber was a rescue mare and also was biased around by a boss mare where she lived before we adopted her. I am going to try to feed her and leave her to eat quietly instead of lingering . I hope this will help!

[Scribbler]

@Mustang Amber

I fed my mustang mate Amber tonight and she acted very aggressively towards me. She bare s her teeth at me and tried to nip at me. I notice this behaviors whenever it is feeding time. Amber was a rescue mare and also was biased around by a boss mare where she lived before we adopted her. I am going to try to feed her and leave her to eat quietly instead of lingering . I hope this will help!

I suggest you also read through the very excellent suggestions on this very old thread that you have just revived. There are some more coherent recommendations than just feeding and running out of the stall.

[Dunkhead]

My sweet silly gelding is prone to showing food aggression to me only at night when I give him his overnight haybag. You might laugh, but here is what is working for me. I enter his stall with my head below his shoulder which makes him immediately curious and, me, I suppose, less-threatening? Anyway, if I stay there a bit and go even a bit lower, he comes up to me , drops his head to my level and snuffles me with his cute little ( no, really it’s huge) nose.

I got the idea by reading that when you are trying to be dominate with a horse, you can raise you hand higher than his head and that is supposed to make you more manly. So I did the opposite. Heh heh.

Give it a try:).