Foot sore, have done diagnostics -- updated with photos (post #43)

I’ve used the forums to research my horse care problem-of-the-day for years; first time poster. My horse’s current lameness situation has perplexed me and all of the many professionals involved … so I’d love to add more opinions of strangers to the mix :slight_smile:

9 year old warmblood showing in the hunters. Clean PPE, have had her for a year, regular aluminum shoes up front and steel behind, had zero lameness issues until February. Apologies in advance for the long saga that follows:

Two days before the trailer was leaving for two weeks of showing in Florida, she came up lame. Vet looked at her same day and thought brewing abscess in the RF. We soaked and packed the foot with MagnaPaste. Sure enough, had drainage in the RF heel in the morning and she was sound. We continued to pack with MagnaPaste and treat the abscess. She was mostly sound but had the occasional funny step. We showed because we were down there to do just that. She continued to have days with some ouchy steps even 2 weeks after the initial abscess. Vet looked at her as soon as she got back home from Florida. Sensitive to hoof testers in the RF toe – made sense with the abscess in the heel. Gave her a week off with limited turnout only in ideal footing.

Vet jogged her; she was sound. We had two weeks of flatwork where she was sound in our softer indoor footing and mostly sound in the outdoor bluestone with the occasional NQR step. She then turned up lame. Vet looks at her same day, and this time it’s the LF. Sensitive to hoof testers in the LF toe and has thrush brewing in the sulcus of the frog. Begin treating thrush and put her on stall rest. No change after 5 days. Vet does blocking to confirm it is the LF hoof, and it is. Once blocked, she switches to a mild lameness on the RF, where we had had issues just weeks prior. At that point, she was much more lame (3/5) on the LF on hard ground and lunging on a circle. The lameness was mild (1/5 if that) on normal soft footing jogging straight.

She does not improve with two more days of stall rest and thrush treatment, so we send her for radiographs and MRIs (if radiographs didn’t show anything) of both front feet. Radiographs did not show anything. MRIs showed only mild inflammation of the coffin bone and thin soles. Research hospital vet recommended just pour in pads. They did say we could inject the coffin joint to try to speed along bringing the inflammation down, but stressed that it should not be needed. Should be good news! But:

That was a week ago. She got the pour in pads (the hard kind) the next day. She’s stayed on stall rest at the farrier’s recommendation. If anything, she is more lame now – but it appears to have moved back to her RF, it looks shorter and stabbier, and it’s now more noticeable (2/5) jogging on soft footing. My vet just started her on Equioxx and Pentoxy yesterday (previously didn’t want to interfere with the other diagnostics, shoeing change, etc.).

At long last, here’s the question: do we give her more time to adjust to the pour in pads? (It’s been a week.) How long? Do we think she is very sensitive (yes, that seems clear at this point) and just may not be able to tolerate the hard pour ins? Separately, do we move forward with coffin joint injections in the meantime? Does that risk masking new problems that the pour ins may be causing (in addition to the standard risks with any injection)?

I am of course working with all my professionals on these questions (and they are all wonderful!). But they think that there are a range of approaches given that we have a lot of information and no big diagnosis but a still quite lame horse. Any thoughts/opinions/comments/questions are appreciated!

Pull her shoes and put her on pasture for six months?

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Would much prefer to find another solution!

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You could pull her shoes and use boots and pads. That would give her much more protection from impact. I suspect the hard pour ins aren’t doing her any good.

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Any films of the feet? Can you get us some pictures of her feet? Pictures like these:
http://www.all-natural-horse-care.co…of-photos.html

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Any chance there is an underlying metabolic issue? Did anything change in Feb…diet, turnout, etc?

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I’d be very interested to see pictures of her feet…abscesses and thrush issues usually point to diet issues in conjunction with trimming/shoeing. A healthy foot shouldn’t have thrush, and it takes some diligent care to really make sure you have a functioning frog. A sore frog/heel can cause toe first landing, which then causes a whole host of other issues. And then the vet tells you you’ve got “caudal heel pain/navicular” and you’re led down the corrective shoeing rabbit hole.

You’re about to get a crash course in hoof health, and it’s a lot to take in, so be prepared to breathe! The best thing for your mare is to get you learning more, and hopefully with some changes you’ll have a sound horse again. (PS check out the Hoof Rehab [Pete Ramey] fb page if you want some reading to do, lots of very smart people on there. They promote trimming, but to have a healthy shod horse you need to know what a good hoof looks like!!!)

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I tend to agree that the hard pour ins aren’t helping matters. But they were the recommendation of the research hospital vet and my farrier thinks she can adjust to them and they’ll help with her thin soles… so I’m trying to figure out how much more time to give them before pulling them and likely trying soft pour ins next.

No changes in diet for 8+ months. She’s in Northern Virginia so there has been limited grass and somewhat limited turnout due to winter weather. She’s a lanky, slim warmblood with a very sleek coat, so she doesn’t fit the profile of a lot of the metabolic issues I’m aware of. Anything else I should be looking out for?

I’ll work on getting pictures in the next few days. I may also be able to get the films from my vet.

I fully think that this was initially set off by the thrush/abscesses in both heels/frogs up front. I’m not sure if it’s dietary, though. She’s in Northern Virginia and it was the wettest 2018 on record with an equally wet start to 2019. She had been in one of the drier turnouts at the farm (perhaps doesn’t say a ton given the amount of rain and mud we’re talking about), but it had a pond that she splashed around in most days…

What signs should I be looking for that would point to a dietary cause in addition or instead?

Could the farrier have taken a bit too much toe this time? Pour in pads (equipack) really helped my thin soled horse. But he could be really lame after shoeing if the farrier was too agressive on the toe.

Also… does she land toe first, flat or heel first? If she’s got some thrush, her frogs probably are not healthy and she’s landing toe first.

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  1. the first time my metabolic horse had pour-in pads, he went out the barn door doing a happy dance. Your horse shouldn’t still be sore from the pads.

  2. I also wonder about the beginnings of metabolic issues and laminitis so mild it is not being detected.

sorry I don’t have anything better. Best wishes in getting a correct diagnosis and please keep,updating:)

Was she in aluminums before you got her or was that a change initiated by you/your farrier? If it’s a new thing that might be worth changing since some horses can’t tolerate aluminum.

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Without a firm diagnosis you need to eradicate the symptoms:

more soreness w/ new pour in pads- Remove shoes and pads

Leave barefoot for few weeks and get the thrush under control.

Keep turnout but make sure it’s in a dry place, no pond splashing, no mud, no dirty stalls.

Provide photos of bare hooves for us if you can. Poor trim can be cause of many issues including thrush.

Review diet for high sugar and high starch feed and hay

In couple weeks see if horse has improved, if not keep digging for cause. Start with improving condition of hooves.

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I agree with everything Marla said…

You can’t trim or shoe your way to a healthy foot. The diet needs to be addressed to feed a healthy foot. Low starch/sugar diet. Forage first then a concentrate if needed. Most feeds contain added iron which normally they get more than what they need from forage and water alone. Vitamins and minerals need to be balanced and that usually means you need to add copper and zinc to help balance out high iron and manganese levels. High iron levels inhibit the ability to absorb copper and zinc, supplementing can help offset that.

I would have your hay and pasture tested then go from there the NRC guidelines will help you with balancing the diet. If you’re not good with spreadsheets like me, FeedXL is a wonderful resource as well.

https://nrc88.nas.edu/nrh/
https://thenaturallyhealthyhorse.com/2013/12/10/importance-mineral-balance-horses-diet/
http://www.hoofrehab.com/Diet.html
https://www.americanfarriers.com/articles/10771-why-poor-hoof-condition-may-be-a-result-of-gastric-ulcers

Looking forward to pictures :slight_smile:

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I was about to suggest the same! And I’ve seen some where in particular wet environment + aluminum = absolute no go.

And I’ve known a couple that hated toe clips, too.

I have one horse who CANNOT tolerate pads of any type - pour in, leather, plastic, frog support, anything. Can you call her former trainer and talk with them extremely specifically about how she was shod? That might enlighten you? I know it’s been a while, but it’s worth a shot!

Tell the vet that the pads are making the horse uncomfortable. Ask them how long you should give them to work as they are the ones with all the information and following up with them makes sense.

Does the horse typically get much turn out?

When my horse needed a pour in for a thin sole and coffin bone inflammation related lameness, he too felt immediately better. Some cannot tolerate the pour ins. I haven’t really seen much adjusting happening. Had a client’s horse with more coffin joint effusion but also sore feet who also improved a decent percentage with the pour ins alone but took a round of IRAP in the coffin joints to finally get rid of the lameness.