For Romance x Franziskus stallion in Verden

I’m curious what you think about this stallion who has been presented in Verden for the Hannoveraner Verband (Hanoverian association). He has gathered a great deal of attention.

Stallion number 31: a For Romance x Franziskus cross.

What do you think about his movement?
What do you think about his hind end conformation?
How do you think this type of stallion will fair under saddle?

What do you think about his movement?

It’s really exaggerated with a lot of suspension. That’s the trend nowadays though. It’s a bit different from other big movers we’ve seen before in that his hind legs have a lot of movement and it’s not just the front end moving big, high, and/or large. A lot of hock action.

Not my cup of tea, nor is it a mover that I’d like to ride. I’ll leave that to the pros!

What do you think about his hind end conformation?

Sometimes his hind legs look a bit straight to me.

How do you think this type of stallion will fair under saddle?

With the right rider, I think could do well and appeal to the current desire for big movers. If he’s trainable (brainwise), he might have a decent career.

No idea how he will hold up to undersaddle work. That big movement and sometimes the hypermobility that comes along with it, can come at a price. The upper levels of dressage are very demanding. If a horse with his movement can hold up to that, then I’ll be impressed.

Really, the best outlook for this horse is with the right trainer and/or rider. As with many horses.

While he’s not my type (I’ve gone Iberian, so there’s that), he is a nice horse. I have very mixed feelings on the movement and how much emphasis we put on that nowadays. I wish it weren’t soo important and think that some people are truly blinded by it.

He’d be an interesting one to follow.


I very much agree with you. His hind end is conformation is interesting to me. This guy is by For Romance I out of a Franziskus x De Niro mare. I also thought he appeared to be straight through the hind which makes the almost exaggerated hock movement unique in a sense. I usually see this kind of movement with horses who are longer in the gaskin versus straight (though I do find exceptions).

Looking at his bloodlines, it looks like his hind end takes after the dam’s sire, Franziskus:


His sire, For Romance I, has a more modern hind leg with a longer gaskin length:

And further on the dam line is De Niro who had a greater length of gaskin as well (but not the exaggerated hock action).

It challenges what I know about hind end conformation in the sense that I’m seeing a horse who is straighter through the hind with this kind of movement.

What also struck me is the lack of tracking up. I found a video of him on FB that shows even less tracking up, especially at the walk. He is tense and young, for sure, but I would expect to see more back movement and more tracking up, at least at the walk.

I’m curious as to how his hocks, which seem to trail out, will fair in training. I’m also curious as to how well he will collect under saddle. I think he is a big leg lover and may be easier to sit than a horse that is more through with more back movement. He has a lot of suspension and push but will this be true push and power? Not sure.

I’m also interested in long term soundness in horses who are straight and long in the gaskin.


Continental wb’s aren’t my thing but walking he looks like he moves close in front. Not going to talk about the trot and canter

Fixed typoes

“he next premium stallion was number 31, a very well developed horse by For Romance out of a Franziskus dam from the Schoemaker breeding farm. Exhibitor was Helgstrand Dressage and he was also shown only for licensing and not for sale.” Eurodressage

@Warmblood1 You may have already seen this.

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My honest opinion is he shows a lot of leg movement with little back movement. His hocks trailed and he took a lot of uneven steps - tension? He did not track up much. Going to the left his tail was much more exaggerated, and he did not have the same separation of hinds at canter. He moved like a tracky horse to me which is the last thing I expect at a licensing.

I’d like to see how he develops. He is stunning otherwise. Quite a few of my breeder groups are talking about him.

All hat no cowboy? I don’t like his front as he walks towards us in the short part of the video that isn’t focused on him zapping around. He doesn’t track up. I suspect that his exaggerated movement behind, hips not just hocks, would be detrimental to long term soundness. But, on the other hand, see him in a relaxed environment where he isn’t hyped up he might look like a different horse. It is interesting to compare him to some of the other stallions at the same event.

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Thanks, that was what I saw

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I’d actually want to see this horse in a few different contexts. I’d like to see him ridden at home with a rider that suits him/that he’s comfortable in, and I’d like to see him at liberty in a more relaxed environment. You’d be surprised what tension can do/produce.


Not to rehash all the other things mentioned in this thread, I don’t like how his front end doesn’t match the hind… pretty much ever. You can pause the video a thousand times and the gait is never “pure”. @beowulf mentioned the tension, it really shows up in his inability to release his shoulders.

I also thought I didn’t like his walk much, but that’s already been covered.

For now, color me unimpressed. I too would like to see him in a different setting.

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His back legs look like my mare the first time I trotted her through water. :laughing:


What is it about the hip conformation you don’t like?

I agree with many of the comments here about this young stallion. I would say, he will likely move differently under saddle. And yes, under saddle is 2 words. I see it on the forums frequently as one. Also, OP is asking how he will fare (not fair) as a riding horse. Sorry, editor here and it’s driving me crazy. :smiley:


How do you internet? You must be driven crazy on the daily!


You would think that in the 21st Century we would observe sexual equality and name the dams instead of just calling them {BN SireName] Mare the way men did 200 years ago.
So name the dam.


Have a look at some of the other lovely horses at the same licensing event and make comparisons. They are all on video doing the same things. It is an informative exercise.

What worries me is the hyper activity, the hyper extension, the extreme angulation, the sheer exageration. Some people will see it as lovely, beautiful movement, but in my eyes it is heading towards cartoonish. But I mainly watch Eventers: this horse I would never consider for galloping or jumping. Good thing he will go the dressage route.


Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for equality/equity/all that jazz - but there is a practicality point behind it as far as horses are concerned.

Any given registered stallion may have hundreds (thousands?) of foals. Any given broodmare is going to have <15 (and 15 is probabnly on the high end!). As a result, most people are going to be MUCH more familiar with the stallions and the type of offspring they produce than the mares. Telling me a mare’s name probably won’t actually tell me much unless I know the mare personally - telling me who her sire is gives me a better idea of the type of mare you’re talking about.

By all means, if you know the mare’s name, there’s no reason to leave it out. But providing the sire name does help convey important information… unless there’s some database of mares with details/images/videos of them that I don’t know about.


The mare’s name is not provided, as is it rarely because people can not recognize a mare’s pedigree usually on name alone. The standard way of listing a bloodline is sire x dam’s sire x dam’s dam sire.

Any theories on what it is about the horse’s conformation that is producing the extreme hock action?


Is it conformation or tension/annoyance/something else? For example, any horse can move similar to this when you put hind boots on for the first time, for example.

I’ve watched multiple videos of him and the movement is pretty consistent. There is another video I couldn’t link but the lack of over track is even worse. I do believe tension is playing a role but I do also believe that this is the general way the horse moves. Usually when they video gaits of a stallion prospect like this one, it is pretty on par with how they move.

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