Found a saddle & fitting questions & pictures

[Pocket_Pony]

As a follow-up to my earlier thread about looking for a narrow-ish twist, I sat in a bunch of saddles yesterday and came home with a used County Competitor to try. In the tack store I sat in: Prestige, Bates, Albion, Passier, Neidersuss, Stubben, and Schleese. Some of them I just sat in for a good 10-15 minutes while goofing off on my phone, just to see how they would feel for a longer period of time versus first impression. As a reminder, I have hip pain that doesn’t allow me to ride in my Frank Baines anymore.

The winner of the sit-in was the County Competitor. It is a 17" seat and “fit 3”.

I brought it home and put it on Pony today without a pad and girthed it up. The angle seems okay to me but I wonder about the panels close to the withers. They come up just about to the top of the withers versus my other saddle in which they are dropped a bit. There’s plenty of wither and spine clearance, and along the back it felt good. I longed Pony in it to see how she moved under it and how/if it moved on her back. It didn’t move on her back and moved with her nicely, so I proceeded to put my stirrups on and mount up.

Ahhhhh, heaven in the twist and seat!

I tried to stick my hand between the panel and her wither area and it was snug enough to not be able to get my hand in there but not so tight that it pinched what part of my hand I could get in.

We had a nice schooling session of wtc. She was nice and forward and soft and round at the trot - she felt great! I feel like I can use my leg very nicely in this saddle, so double bonus points for that. The stirrups hang in the right position and I was not fighting the saddle in the least. Yay!

At the canter she did well and I had a good place to sit (I haven’t been cantering a lot except for in two-point in my jumping saddle because of my hip problems - it bothers me to sit). The left is her easier direction so we did that first and then went to the right. The first time was a bit discombobulated, but the second time she gave me such a lovely depart that we cantered just a couple strides and I called it a day and we cooled off and went back to the barn.

My biggest question is about the panel being “high” and close to the wither. And the right panel is closer to the wither than the left panel. I wonder if that is just flocking and something that can be fixed with a visit from the saddle fitter?

(Side note, my vet has a County fitter she really likes so I’m waiting to get her contact info to talk to her about it.)

Here’s a link to the pictures I took. http://s1310.photobucket.com/user/PrincessFishCheeks/library/Annwylid%20DLite/Saddle%20trial

Please tell me your thoughts on the fit and flocking, from what you can see. All photos are with the girth on (except for obviously where it is on the floor or on a stand). I can’t tell if the head of the tree is asymmetrical or if that’s just because I took a bad picture…?

[CFFarm]

Not real helpful angles. Looks a bit twisted in the first picture (may be camera angle) and a bit fuller on one side in another photo. Looks a bit tipped back in last photo but without a square stance on the horse hard to tell. Might work with reflocking.

[Posting_Trot]

I’m not a fitter, not an expert, but I wonder if the saddle isn’t a little narrow? It seems to me as though there’s a lot of clearance at the withers which suggests a too narrow tree. It is a little hard to tell.

[Bogie]

Here is an article that explains the photos you need to take to allow long-distance evaluation of saddle fit. What you’ve shown isn’t that helpful.

http://pantherrunsaddlery.com/saddle-fit-evaluation-photos/

If the saddle does turn out to be a hair too narrow but fits otherwise, it can often be fixed by changing the flocking (I just had handfuls of wool removed from the saddle I bought for my mare) or by having the tree adjusted. My fitter has a saddle press in his car and can widen or narrow a tree on site.

From what you posted, I don’t think the fit is that off but without seeing the whole horse it’s hard to tell. For example, a saddle may look a bit pommel high (narrow) but sometimes that’s because the saddle is placed too far up on the horse’s shoulders.

[Pocket_Pony]

I got my handy-dandy romex out and measured Pony compared to the saddle and it is indeed too narrow. That coupled with the tree asymmetry that I felt and see upon closer inspection makes me think that it isn’t going to work. But at least I know what saddle I do like so I can look for one in a wider tree!

[jaybird660]

These are photos that are helpful. It’s so close in all of the photos that there is no perspective. I can’t tell if the saddle is girthed, nor, see the balance. Usually, when I see the panels so high relative to the wither, I’m suspect of the width. It’s also helpful to see conformation shots to know what the horse needs.

Conformation shots, no tack or pad. Horse square, head up, directly from the side, of the entire horse and one from right behind the tail on a mounting block looking toward the mane, head up and straight, feet square

For fit evaluation:

No pad and girthed to riding tightness, all photos.

One of the entire horse, directly from the side, head up, square

One so that I can see the way the rear of the panels rest on the horse’s back.

One from the front so that I can see how the shoulder angle matches the tree angle and clearance, mane out of the way.

The same three photos, with you in it, hands out of the way.

[exvet]

Yes, next time please show more of the pony

[mvp]

IME, County designs saddles to fit closely around the withers. The horse either doesn’t care or does. My litmus test for the horse’s opinion about this saddle maker’s design would be to ride in it. Really ask the horse and saddle how they work together when your weight is bringing their two skeletons into close contact.

That said, it’s not the closest-fitting County I have seen. The saddle struck me as too narrow or too far forward from those naked, 3/4 shots. But the side view suggests that it’s balanced: The cantle is an inch or two higher than the pommel.

I think the flocking looks thin right underneath the waist of the saddle and stirrup bars. I know that can be fixed to an extent with reflocking. If it were my horse, I’d want to try and feel around along the bottom edge of the panel while the saddle was on the naked horse. We can see and run our fingers down the leading edge of the panel by the withers. It’s harder to do that and evaluate fit farther back where the panels are supposed to fit the long, thin muscles that run along the spinal processes and directly below where we sit. IMO, fitting in that section is a big deal and a saddle that looks good near the pommel and cantle yet rocks side-to-side when set on the horse’s back is one that doesn’t fit in this illusive and important middle section.

[Pocket_Pony]

![]('ve experienced the rocking side-to-side before, mvp, so I know what that feels like and it has caused me a lot of problems when I ride. Pony did seem to like it for the first ride, but I just couldn’t get over the perceived asymmetry in the tree so I sent this one back.

A friend has an old (much older - it is brown with two billet straps and a flap strap!) County that she’s letting me try. I put it on Pony last night and it looks and feels way better to me at first glance (without getting on). I compared it to her wither tracings, and the angle looks just perfect. The question will be the twist for me and if my hips can take it. Cantering is the biggest tell and causes me the most problems.

exvet, Pony is looking lovely as always. She’s shedding out and gets a dappled shedding pattern so looks kind of funny right now, but her spring coat is sleek and shiny! I took her to her first h/j show two weekends ago and she was very good. But I want to get a dressage saddle so I can get back into my dressage lessons!

[IMG]http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s654/PrincessFishCheeks/Annwylid%20DLite/PFP%20cross%20rail%202_zpsi466op8w.png)

[exvet]

Wow, she’s inherited her parents’ jumping talent it appears. She looks great. Dressage and jumping are both good for her. Good luck with the saddle search and thank you. Can never get enough pictures of her. Her brother is also shedding out right now and does that dappling thing. Both mares/dams possess the sooty gene which I suspect may cause some of that dappling ‘effect’ though I think they have the typical dapple too (not related to the sooty gene).

[plaidbreeches]

I’ve got an older County Competitor right now like the one you have on trial, but #4 fit, with short billets and an overstrap (which is too short for my draft cross at the moment so is coiled up in the stirrup keeper!)

It’s very comfortable as far as balance and twist and I’m also dealing with hip pain and riding a wider horse. I broke my femur 8 months ago and now the other side is off too from uneven stress I put on it while healing. I found I can sit his trot in this saddle a lot more comfortably than in my old (Cynron) saddle.

It purposely sits a little lower and has a little bit of a cutback wither to allow that, and a super wide channel.

[Hayburner]

Have you tried the Bates Isabelle​? I had the competitor and now much prefer the Bates. Thanks