Hey, well my 21 year old horse who has never been sick or lame a day in his life, now has founder from the grass seeds according to one vet. I knew he was a little overweight but never thought he would founder. The vet said the eating the seeds was like the horse was eating corn . I have never dealt with founder before, pretty scary, plus I have to sort out all the different info I’m getting from diff. vets/farrier. Fun times lol. We thought we were doing a good thing trying to improve the pastures and that is the main thing that made him founder according to the vet. Maybe we should have left the pasture natural ? Sorry, maybe just venting.
Oh I’m so sorry. Thanks for posting this, though. I’ve always found pasture maintenance to be tricky. I have one area that is fenced appropriately for horses. I’ve found it really hard not to have a sacrifice area, but it’s not really possible with my set up without major expense in fencing. Maybe someday.
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I am so sorry about your pony.
The single best place for information is https://www.ecirhorse.org/
Founder/laminitis is so nerve wracking.
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I’ve been going through this with my older Paint gelding (Cushings, IR). Muzzles are key for any laminitis prone horse on pasture. Get a pair of well-measured Easy Ride type boots for laminitis-- they are a game-changer for horse comfort. I have a sand “rolling pit” that my boy lived in for a few weeks so he could easily find his own comfortable place to stand (sand is highly recommended as the deep footing they should stand in during the acute phase) and lie down in. No, we didn’t feed him there. Soaked hay and tested low-sugar hay is also part of the plan. Do go to the website referenced above-- lots of excellent advice there.
I did do a set of xrays with both bouts of laminitis (each a year apart) with my boy- very little rotation if any in each one, thank goodness. I work with my farrier to keep him trimmed carefully. I also added Heiro supplement on the recommendation of my vet. It has helped his hoof growth tremendously. Good luck, there are many of us who’ve gone through this. Grass is wonderful, but it kills horses too.
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Actual founder, or “just” laminitis for now?
Either one, in a 21yo, this time of year, would have me assuming he’s got Cushing’s (PPID) and I would test asap. This is a great time for the ACTH test.
This isn’t a seed head issue. That’s nothing like eating corn
What improvement measures have you been taking?
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Thanks for the link, I will def. look into that, reading all I can , He is 4 degrees in the LF and 5 in the RF. He has heart bar shoes on but is still sore so vet said to take shoes off to see if there’s an abcess. Soaking hay, on Heiro, Icing his hooves, keeping him in the barn for now, lots of shavings, I’m tired lol. Should be getting Soft ride boots today. Thanks everyone. Also, waiting on blood test results.
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Just got test results, he does have ppid/cushings and will be on Prascend as soon as I get it.
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How thick is his sole, and how many mm between the tip of his coffin bone and his sole in each foot?
Did your vet advise you start slooowly? What dose does he want him on?
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No, he didn’t. I’ll have to look that up, can’t remember right now. We found the abscess. It is in the back of the frog, and the boots fit ! Yay !
I am far from an expert, so I won’t offer advice. But I will send you virtual hugs. My former heart horse foundered hard and fast (or it was missed, I don’t know because I had sold her) and we lost her. That was over 20 years ago, and I am still teary about it. It terrifies me to this day. Sorry you’re going through this, but sounds like you are on it. And… goes without saying, but jingles for your boy! Hope he is feeling better soon. 
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Lots of good advice already. I will only add that you are about to find out just how good your farrier or barefoot trimmer is — or is not.
When it comes to special needs hooves (founder, laminitis, etc). Most hoof care givers only think they know a thing or two, end up shooting from the hip and causing the horse unneeded distress and possibly permanent damage. I speak from experience.
Please don’t say “I have a great farrier”, lollol. Maybe you really do or maybe you have someone who is a good talker:)
My foundered horse has had two great farrier’s/trimmers during his foundered time —-- me until I got to where I could barely get under him with a hoof pick much less a rasp.
My current therapeutic farrier who has managed both my horses for the last 3+ years — after the other farriers and “barefoot” trimmers who came along after I had to stop trimming. They were all good with hooves that didn’t need special care and didn’t need a set of x-rays to do a corrective trim, but a one of them damaged my horse for the rest of his days.
Not all vets are up to speed on treating foundered hooves in this day and age of technolog. No vet or farrier in this Day should be suggesting outdated heart bar shoes, if shoes do become a serious part of the conversation (try your best to keep him barefoot:).
There are several brands and many models of composite shoes on the market that do a bang up job of reducing concussion and actually aid in regaining some sole depth.
Some Cushings horses seem prone to abscesses, and some of those seem to have one abscess after another; it’s how my friend lost her horse when pneumonia set in. My personal thought is a weakened immune system might be the cause — I have my IR/Cushings horse on a custom, condensed Vit/min supplement from HorseTech, plus a extra Natural Vitamin E, also from HorseTech in the hopes of being able to avoid those dreaded & painful abscesses.
You are dealing with one abscess already so don’t let your guard down.
Start a file, get copies of your horse’s test results and and learn how to read them so you can ask the vet intelligent questions. My horse’s ACTH numbers were three times higher than high/normal. The vet started my horse on 1/2 mg (one half tablet) of Prascend daily. I broke that half tablet in half for a few months.
At my horse’s next six month blood draw, his numbers had dropped to within normal range. In my horse’s case, the meds did exactly what they were & are supposed to do with zero side affects. His Cushings diagnosis was in 2019 and he is still maintaining the way he should on 1/2mg Prascend daily. FWIW, he was diagnosed IR in 2012 so, with him, insulin resistance reared it’s ugly head long before Cushings did even though I saw markers as early as ~2016.
. The vets, in all fairness, only know the general answers. When dealing with metabolic and pituitary gland issues, no two horses will be exactly the same. The owner has to to take some responsibility as regards diet, hoof care, and monitoring the horse:)
Best wishes in managing your horse. Do not only the scientific research but listen to input from those of us who are or have dealt with Cushings. Anecdotal input won’t be confusing, if you can remember each horse is different, so is their living environment, therefore detailed management varies:)
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Thankyou, and sorry about your horse. 
Lots of good info here, thanks so much ! So far he’s doing good in his new shoes (soft ride boots) The Prascend I ordered is 1mg tablets. Is that too much to start on ?
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Is there a link to the different hays/grasses and their sugar content ? Also, those that have had horses founder, how long was it until you could put your horse back on pasture and stop soaking hay ? I realize they are all different cases.
My horse was completely off pasture for the first couple of months after his laminitis attack. I gradually re-introduced him to grazing, starting with just a few minutes muzzled every day and gradually increasing until he was loose in a small paddock after about 5-6 months. I worried at least as much about him running around and damaging his feet as I did that he would eat too much rich grass.
I have never soaked his hay, but I feed lesser quality summer grass hay. His current schedule is out during the day, always muzzled when the grass is abundant and growing, and stalled at night with his less-tasty hay. I put out enough hay that there’s always some left in the morning, and I’ve found that he does not over-eat. I’m only speculating, but I think this may be because he knows he will always have hay if he’s hungry so he doesn’t need to stuff himself. I also feed a forage balancer specifically formulated for easy keepers. This has worked well for my horse, but you’ll have to find what works for your horse depending on his metabolism, his environment, and your schedule.
The only way to know the sugar content of your hay is to get it tested, but in general, summer grasses are lower in sugar than cool season grasses.
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www.equi-analytical.com Common Feed Profiles has a lot of years’ worth of forage analyses where you can see high/low/average esc, wsc, and starch
Warm season grasses (like Bermudas) tend to be lower, since their growing conditions are when nights are warm(er), and there’s higher sugar usage overnight.
Cool season grass (like Fescue, Timothy) tend to be higher, since their growing conditions are when nights are cool(er) and there’s lower sugar usage overnight (even no usage if it’s below 40*F)
But a given cutting of a cool season grass can be lower than a given cutting of a warm season grass, if conditions were favorable for that.
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Thankyou for your input, it really helps.
You need to have your individual hay tested. Looking at values of “generic” hay types, while interesting, is going to tell you nothing about the specific hay you are feeding your laminitic horse. Please, if you are interested in getting your horse better, delve deep into that ECIR group.
Pasturing. The short answer is they may never be able to eat pasture, depending on where you live and what type of pasture we are talking about. Most IR/PPID/Laminitis prone horses require a dry lot or to be muzzled all the time while turned out on grass.
I am living it and I know it sucks. I had to leave a barn I had been at for 10+ years because the grass was killing my horse.
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To add to that - it doesn’t give you a breakout of varieties of grasses, other than a few generics (like, I think, “bermudagrass”, which has a LOT of varieties)
If you are asking so you can start to make decisions of what hays to buy, then you definitely want to look at warm season grasses.
Teff has been around a while, and while it’s still hard to find due to its requirements, it’s been gaining popularity in some areas in the last few years. While not guaranteed, it’s VERY likely to be high enough protein, and quite low in ESC and starch, which is excellent for EMS horses.
2nd cut Orchardgrass is also pretty likely to be high enough in protein and low sugar and starch.
Tifton varities of Bermuda can be great too.
But in the end, you have to test. I’ve seen some Teff cuttings that would kill an IR horse.
