Founder or Abscess?

[alholl15]

Hello everyone!

I am pretty stumped so I’ve been searching the internet trying to find answers, and I thought I would give this a try.

I have an older Morgan who we have been keeping a close eye on to make sure she doesn’t get too overweight, as we were concerned she might founder. She has been on extremely minimal pasture all spring, and there haven’t been any sudden changes in her diet.

I noticed slight lameness in her left front about a week ago and the vet came out on Friday and diagnosed her with founder. He had a positive response with the hoof testers on the left hoof and didn’t check the other because she is very uncomfortable standing on the left foot only. He didn’t notice any significant heat in either of her feet.

He put her on 4 grams of bute a day and 10-12lbs of hay and no grass. I bedded her stall down very thickly to make her comfortable.

However, I am not seeing any progress with the bute, and today I pulled her out and she was dead lame on the left front. She is not putting any weight on it and sometimes even holds it up to take the weight off. I am curious if it could be an abscess due to the progression- our farrier is coming out tomorrow so I was going to ask his opinion as well, but I was curious to see what you guys thought.

[islgrl]

I would want xrays if the diagnosis was founder…

[BUSY]

Yes - have farrier look at your mare.

Sounds like a possible abscess - given your description.

• 4 gr bute daily - how long ? …

Jingles

[findeight]

Abcess is a pus pocket from a bruise trapped inside the hoof. You don’t want to give Bute as the heat it generates actually helps it blow out. Reducing the heat just makes it take longer to heal.

Founder is a catch all term that could be inflammation of the tiny vessels within the hoof or a rotating coffin bone. Treatment protocol can differ depending on specifics and usually involves NSAIDS for pain, the farrier and some shoeing/trimming adjustments, founder is quite serious either way,

You really, really need to get a diagnosis via x rays, not a guess and Bute.

Oh, older horse prone to gain weight with founder? Better check for Cushings or it will reoccur.

[Cathy_D]

It is not necessarily an either or situation. Laminitis can lead to abscessing. If your mare is worse, I would have the vet back out today if possible.

[BUSY]

Update ? Please & Thank You …

[Palm_Beach]

I’d be on the phone with the vet as well as getting the farrier out. Founder can be progressive, meaning it gets worse over time, and the bone could have rotated more duing the past week, causing more pain.

[S1969]

I think that’s an odd diagnosis after checking only one foot. It could be laminitis but it also could be an abscess. It’s not very typical for a horse to have metabolic laminitis in only one foot.

Basically the lameness eval didn’t rule out laminitis but didn’t do anything to confirm it; “founder” in my opinion would be actually seeing rotation, which can’t be done without an xray anyway.

I’d probably get xrays of at least both front feet. Even if it turns out to only be an abscess it will give you an idea of what the feet look like today and whether there has been any rotation; and will give you something to compare to in the future.

Personally, I suspect an abscess and would treat it as such, although it won’t hurt to take the horse off pasture and bed the stall until further info is available to make a better dx.

[alholl15]

Hi everybody!
Thanks for all your responses- my internet has been very slow the past couple days so I am going to try to actually post this now.

When the farrier came out last Thursday, he thought it could be founder as well and wanted xrays like many of you said, but he was a bit suspicious that it could be an abscess due to it being only on that foot and the fact that she wasn’t improving on the bute. Called the vet afterwards and he didn’t want to do xrays for another 2 weeks, and basically just told me to wait and see. My mare was still incredibly lame at this point, but I had been soaking with epsom salts and wrapping so I continued to do that.

Sure enough, Saturday morning she blew out an abscess near her coronary band. The difference in her today is incredible, she is finally able to walk again and she is almost sound. Called the vet and he was very surprised, and he just told me to keep it clean and keep watching her for any signs of laminitis, but she is off the bute now which makes me feel a lot better.

Thank you all for your help! My mare and I both really appreciate it.

[S1969]

If you have a horse you suspect might founder, I would be doing a lot to prevent it from getting worse, not just waiting to see. Getting the horse off pasture is a good start. I would not cut hay down to 10-12lbs for a normal sized Morgan - I would soak it and/or have it tested to see the sugar content. Presumably your mare should be eating more forage than that? Starving her isn’t the answer to the weight loss or to prevent laminitis, but reducing sugar in the hay would help.

But I guess I’m not sure why you were worried she would founder to begin with? How fat is she? I agree that testing for Cushings might be a good plan too. Sounds a bit like the vet is looking to diagnose founder for some reason, rather than determine the cause of lameness?

[WasthatC]

@alholl15

Hi everybody!
Thanks for all your responses- my internet has been very slow the past couple days so I am going to try to actually post this now.

When the farrier came out last Thursday, he thought it could be founder as well and wanted xrays like many of you said, but he was a bit suspicious that it could be an abscess due to it being only on that foot and the fact that she wasn’t improving on the bute. Called the vet afterwards and he didn’t want to do xrays for another 2 weeks, and basically just told me to wait and see. My mare was still incredibly lame at this point, but I had been soaking with epsom salts and wrapping so I continued to do that.

Sure enough, Saturday morning she blew out an abscess near her coronary band. The difference in her today is incredible, she is finally able to walk again and she is almost sound. Called the vet and he was very surprised, and he just told me to keep it clean and keep watching her for any signs of laminitis, but she is off the bute now which makes me feel a lot better.

Thank you all for your help! My mare and I both really appreciate it.

I find the vet’s lassez faire attitude irritating as hell.
We have limited information about the horse’s real-world condition with only 2 posts from OP…but I think I’d have a new vet.

[MyKindaFlower]

I agree with WasthatC! Glad to hear that your mare is doing better, OP. I’m not sure about your area and the veterinarians that you have to choose from, but I’d be looking for a new vet if at all possible.