Foundered broodmares

[EquusMagnificus]

It has been a bittersweet week, first learning that my most favorite mare, Barbarees Hill, my TB, has foundered in her RF. She has the caracteristic pointy nose on her coffin bone indicating this has been a long-standing condition. She has never been the soundest horse around, having arthritis in her hocks, but the lameness in her front came about looking like sole soreness. Turns out, as it didn’t improve after a few days, that we did x-rays and voilà, founder. :no:

The very next day I learned that she’s in foal to Banderas.

Obviously, when I bred her, she wasn’t showing any lameness besides her arthritis which is very well controlled with simple MSM. Now that she’s in foal, I’ll manage it, I can’t bring myself to lutalysing her at this point as she is responding extremely well to treatment and was in good condition up to a week ago.

I spoke to my vet about the pregnancy, she agreed with my decision for this time around to just… Manage her closely and follow-up properly, but I am not sure what to do for the future.

Then my vet said: “50% of the broodmares I follow have foundered”. :eek: Whaaat?? Here I am doubting, second-guessing, turning over every rock for information for a mare that is only a mild case, albeit chronic, while some folks are breeding mares over and over without question? But I disgress!

I am concerned about the hormonal changes causing problems; I am not sure what to think of the excess weight as the bone changes indicate it has been a long-standing condition and she has a 6 week-old filly at side that she carried without any issues… She even looked better than ever throughout the winter when I noticed she needed MSM. She’d run and play with her yearling daughter.

I guess I am just looking for advice, experiences and thoughts on this. What are the options for the future? Just keep her as a companion? Breed every other year to spare her? Breed willy-nilly? (I know you guys won’t agree to this :lol: Nor will I!)

I am also concerned about the heriditary factors of this, obviously. The fact that it isn’t a new thing makes it impossible for me to pin-point the cause. Was it mechanical or metabolic? No clue. It seems odd to me that it would be metabolic if it is only in one foot. The other one is perfectly fine. Navicular bone is per-fect.

:sigh:

[VirginiaBred]

I have a welsh mare that is susceptible to founder and has come close a couple times. When she gives me a scare, I tend to keep her in a stall with limited turnout for about 3 weeks. So far (knock wood) it has been the best at keeping that nasty founder away. Really limited (the equivalent of a hand-full)feed and basic hay.

[JB]

50% of mares founder? What? I don’t believe that :no:

Do you have ANY idea what brought this on? You will need to manage her sugar intake carefully. This means tested low-NSC hay (at least below 15%, as low as you can find), or soaking it. It means likely adding magnesium to her diet. It means NO high-NSC feed. Thankfully most ration balancers are on the lower side. There are also low-NSC options like Triple Crown Growth, if you can get that.

[rcloisonne]

I’d be far more concerned about fetal exposure to ionizing radiation this early in a pregnancy. Did the vet not mention anything about that?

[EquusMagnificus]

@JB;5722661

50% of mares founder? What? I don’t believe that :no:

No, she didn’t say 50% of mares founder, but that 50% of the mares owned by her clients had suffered from founder at one point or another.

[EquusMagnificus]

[QUOTE=rcloisonne;5722662]
I’d be far more concerned about fetal exposure to ionizing radiation this early in a pregnancy. Did the vet not mention anything about that?[/QUOTE]

The vet said that x-raying feet (fronts to boot!) was absolutely safe for the embryo. (And this was the repro specialist from the clinic… She always tends to err on the side of caution, so I trust her judgement.)

I just sold my other broodmare, figuring I’d focus only on this one until her daughters are old enough to ride/breed.

Life sure likes to take a good laugh at us, doesn’t it? :sadsmile:

[EquusMagnificus]

[QUOTE=JB;5722661]

Do you have ANY idea what brought this on? You will need to manage her sugar intake carefully. This means tested low-NSC hay (at least below 15%, as low as you can find), or soaking it. It means likely adding magnesium to her diet. It means NO high-NSC feed. Thankfully most ration balancers are on the lower side. There are also low-NSC options like Triple Crown Growth, if you can get that.[/QUOTE]

I have NO idea what brought it on! As I said, x-ray findings indicate that it has been there for a long time. Perhaps even before I got her. That’s the really hard part. I wish I had a clear element I could target.

I have to research again what are the factors leading to founder. It is not exactly well understood it seems!

I am going to the feed store as we speak to pick up a low-NSC feed for her, 10% it is.

What does magnesium do for founder? Never heard of that?

[Wayside]

[QUOTE=EquusMagnificus;5722527]
She has the caracteristic pointy nose on her coffin bone indicating this has been a long-standing condition.[/QUOTE]

Hmm, do you know much about her history before you owned her? It is possible, since you say that the vet thinks it’s been long standing, that she had some kind of injury in the past on the opposing leg that could have cased her to founder on the supporting limb?

Pure speculation, I know, but it would explain why it’s only in the one foot, and not the other.

[Kyzteke]

I’m afraid I can’t help you in the founder dept., as that is one horse disaster I have yet to deal with…I’m sure my turn will come.

However, you did mention giving your mare MSM. You might want to do some research on that, as I believe it’s contraindicated for pregnant mares. Many anti-inflammatories are, including Bute & Devil’s Claw.

And don’t just ask you vet – many vets really don’t know much about some of the “natural” supplements.

Best of luck with your mare…tough timing!!

[EquusMagnificus]

I did check on the MSM and bute, with several sources… It is fine for pregnant mares.

[rideagoldenpony]

My only experience with founder and a broodmare is still happening, so I’m not sure how it will play out.

In December of 2009 I imported a really nice Section B Welsh mare. 2 1/2 weeks after she arrived, she stopped eating and I called the vet, who ended up doing bloodwork – and to our surprise, she was experiencing kidney failure. We took her straight to the university, where they began to treat her… and 3 days into her 3 week stay – she foundered. And they did everything wrong.

We finally brought her home when she was able to be off IV morphine, and go on to pain patches. It was a rough month or so, but by the end of Feb. 2010, she was almost back to normal. Then… then my vet said she wanted to trim her feet herself… and I let her. And she almost killed the mare. She pared out WAY WAY WAY too much sole – it was just paper thin between the world and her coffin bone. We used the Epona Shoes on her, and with the help of the maker of those shoes, we made progress… then she began seriously abcessing. We called in another vet, and with his help, we cleared those over about 6 weeks.

Now, she is finally barefoot, able to be turned out and is several months in foal. She is doing fine, maintaining her relative soundness well, and I am optimistic about a healthy foal next spring.

[buschkn]

@rcloisonne;5722662

I’d be far more concerned about fetal exposure to ionizing radiation this early in a pregnancy. Did the vet not mention anything about that?

This is of no concern at all, actually, and is blown way out of proportion. Even a CT scan in a human has essentially zero risk to a developing fetus, although we try to avoid them anyway, so a few foot films in a horse is not a cause for alarm at all.

[back_in_the_saddle]

The thing you need to watch out for are drugs that affect the vascular system in a pregnant mare. Ace os one. DMSO does something bad but i can’t remember if it’s to the fetus or vascular system or both. Having been there done that with a pregnant mare and founder - good luck with everything!

[siegi_b]

What I find a little strange and yet comforting is that the founder is only in one front hoof… That would make me want to get to the bottom of it to see if it could be trauma related and, therefore, not something to worry about for the rest of the mare’s lifetime.

I have had one mare founder on me during pregnancy when I was told by an “expert” to really pour the calories in her in order to get a “big” foal. This mare foundered bilaterally in the front 30 days before parturition and had to be starved for the duration. The foal was a little skinny initially (as my vet had warned me) but showed no lasting effects and grew into a big, strong colt.

Just my experience and opinion…