For a different perspective on the relationship between hunting and negative interactions between wildlife and humans, take a look at this article from today’s New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/31/magazine/mountain-lion-attack.html?unlocked_article_code=1.l04.Ff1x.p89VzPUFJ2NY&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
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Correct. We also hunt feral pigs with dogs (usually a variety of bull arab or “pig dog”) over here and no one bats an eye. Granted the dogs usually just hold the pig until the hunter dispatches it with a knife. The dogs can easily get injured or killed, so they wear hard breastplates.
No horses, hunters are usually on foot or in a vehicle. It’s a huge sport here.
Some states have traditional foxhunts on horseback, but it’s a limited tradition unfortunately, given our landscape isn’t really amenable to it.
I think if our Brit counterparts went pig hunting here with us, they’d be horrified. Makes foxhunting look so very genteel.
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I know where they came from! It’s just that this section rarely if ever talks about foxhunting, except to point out that a lot if today’s show hunters don’t look like they’d be good foxhunting horses at all.
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Oh my goodness, this IS amusing.
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If you are seeing that much poaching then you NEED to get ahold of your county game warden! Depending on the species, even the US Fish and Wildlife Service! Put pressure on your state legislators if it is THAT bad.
If you don’t know how to navigate/ who to contact within your state’s wildlife management agency or the federal agencies responsible for the federally-protected species in your state, I can point you in the right direction if you feel comfortable with it.
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I’m sorry you’ve had that experience in your area. Have you looked into the conservation efforts of your local fox hunting clubs? I hope that you are able to separate the actions of one group of people from another, instead of being blocked by misapprehension and prejudice. Hunting of course can be a divisive subject, but it’s really quite incredible how closed minded people (in general) can be even when they don’t take the time to fully understand the subject.
I follow a lot of UK hunt groups on Facebook, and the clean boot bloodhound packs spent time every post trying to tell the furious commentariat that they are literally chasing a dude named Bob who gets licked to death at the finish. But they get just as much grief as the (also legal) trail hunting groups get, and they don’t seem to be able to educate anyone past their misconceptions.
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This is the best thing I’ve read all year 
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The article on inclusivity? Focused on a club that hunts on 6,000 acres of preserved land in New Jersey?
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So I took this bait and searched out this article. This article is not promoting a bloodthirsty sport as you are suggesting. It actually mentions how it was a slow day, with only the last hour actually giving chase to the fox. Specifically, this day (and article) was geared towards loosening the attire and formalities of MFH hunts (string gloves, velvet hunt caps) and welcoming all riders.
From the article:
“If you want to try it, and all you have is western tack, come out in cubbing season,” she said. “Most hunts are actually fairly open to it, as long as you ask first—they just want you to be dressed safely.“I enjoy crossovers,” she added. “It’s less about what you’re wearing and how you look, and more about enjoying being outside, enjoying what’s going on, preserving open space, and seeing other people. That’s why I have multiple horses, so I can bring other people out to enjoy this too.”
ETA: This IS the article you are referencing, correct? Just so I am on the same page.
Even I know that the foxes are not killed when put to ground, hounds are incredibly well trained, foxes are even tended to with dewormer via feeding boxes, etc.
Do not conflate “hunting” to be the same as “foxhunting”. I suggest you seek out your DNR or the local sheriff with your concerns of poaching. That is not normal. I grew up with and around hunters (rural Maine) and we respect every season, license, etc. Heck even our female lobsters are protected. We live off of and protect our resources at the same time.
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I think YOU are kidding yourself about hunting and hunters. In Texas, not hunting by the law—with tags, in season—you face heavy repercussions. Everyone here knows that. I don’t even hunt and I called the game warden about a dead 8-pt buck on a corner of my property (I have 90 acres), asking them if they wanted to investigate it. The “vast majority” of people here who hunt abide by the law. Feral pigs, coyotes, even axis “deer” —there is no season on them. They are destructive (or in the case of axis, introduced exotics), and cause loads of loss and damage. Get educated.
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In 67 years, you’ve never had an outdoor cat go missing, when they got eaten by a coyote?
Or encountered a mountain lion?
Or had a coyote threaten a newborn foal?
Besides the bad hunters who are doing illegal baiting and such (which I assume you call your game warden to report?), what exactly are the rest of the hunters doing wrong? Like with anything in our world, there are unfortunately bad eggs out there, that leave a mess, litter, don’t close gates, and give everyone else a bad name. No different than horse owners who have no business having a horse and you can see their poor riding and abusive training from a mile away.
Sounds like everyone else is at least following the rules, appropriately leasing land and/or getting land permission, shooting what’s in season and/or have a tag, etc. etc. What’s wrong with the ones that are doing things by the book? If hunting isn’t your cup of tea, that’s fine. But nothing wrong with the hunters that follow the rules and enjoy their sport. No different than people out there that think horse owners are cruel for strapping a saddle to a horse, putting metal in their mouth, and forcing them to ride. Should owning horses be banned because there are some people that don’t like it? Should hunting be banned because there are some people out there that don’t like it?
Reading that article, where exactly does it talk about animal cruelty?
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I’ve been part of a foxhunting club in NE for decades. Our fox is named Peter and yes, the hounds love him. Perhaps more important is how much work the hunt clubs in our areas work to preserve the land, maintain the trails and protect the foxes (which we don’t chase – purely a drag hunt).
It’s a great way to be out with friend, riding through territories that are often not accessible to the public, and learning how to ride your horse over varied terrain at different speeds.
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I know a number of deer hunters. NONE hunt out of season. ALL eat what they kill. I knew someone that hunted rabbits with beagles. He ate them, too. (He is no longer with us).
I have been on a number of fox “hunts” over the years. Never had one killed. The hounds were all called off once the fox went to ground. Foxhounds are totally nose hounds. They take the same S path as the fox. They do not take the straight line of the $. On one fox chase I was at the fox sat in front of the field of horses while the hounds made their way down the S path he had done. He was not panting. He did not appear stressed. Once the hound got kinda close he moved off. He was pretty non-plussed about it.
We have a local newspaper with a call in opinion piece. A deer hunter friend of mine read a pair of editorials by the same woman. The first was she was calling out deer hunters as evil people for killing deer. They only did it for sport. I few weeks later she retracted that call in. She hit a deer with her car. She realized the deer was very thin. Upon reflection she realized that human deer hunters were helping control the population in place of coyotes and wolves. She realized it was more humane to be shot by a bullet or arrow than starve to death.
I live not too far from Valley Forge National Park. At one point hunting or controlled kills were totally banned. The deer in that park were being killed on the PA Turnpike. The deer in that park were not much bigger than a Great Dane. One time driving a 3 mile stretch through the park I counted 64 deer. Yes, that was after dark and only what I could see in the headlights along the road.
Eventually the park system was able to hire sharp shooters to cull the deer. The meat was donated to prisons. The deer population is much healthier. They are not decimating the locals crops and gardens.
I find your protests particularly ironic considering you chose @LeatherLover for your name. Do you think that killing a calf or cow to get that leather is a better process than a clean kill for a deer? Or a no-kill for a fox?
The farmer’s pack I hunted with for a few years chased the same foxes for many years. There was one they got close to once. He was quick to go to ground and they respected that. NO hunts that I have EVER heard of would bring in a fox to an unknown territory. They want the fox to know where he can safely go to ground so they can chase them again.
The farmer’s pack I hunted with would frequently treat the local foxes for mange, which would otherwise cause a slow nasty death to those foxes.
They would frequently supplement the local fox diet with deer carcasses from local hunters so they foxes were healthy in the winter.
Nature can be cruel. Most fox hunters I know help the foxes stay healthy. They help them through land conservation.
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Thank you for the thoughtful posts here about hunt ethic and conservation. The OP sounds like she has a problem with a local area and casts the assumption onto a whole community.
I have occasion to chat with bow hunters often. Many of them are also gun people. They spend a ton of time working on their skill and the precision of their equipment. We talk about scouting hikes and population dynamics. My BIL was a hunter with both bow and rifle and spent a large part of his summers simply driving and hiking around the rangeland near his cabin. He was getting to know the resources and behavior of his local deer and elk. Everything he took, he ate. Success was usually every other year.
As a retired horsewoman I would have given anything to have followed our “local” drag hunt. I would have been a grand experience and a “proofing of my skill set” When I was in college I was fortunate to be able to ride once a week at a barn tied to the drag hunts range. We had the occasion to go out during a lesson session and go cross country over some of the range. I felt that I was truly experiencing the culmination of all the lessons I had since childhood ( I never jumped or showed as a kid) That ride on that sweet , game mare is still deeply etched in my mind.
I have no issue with hunting. Duck hunters as a group, have been responsible for some of the largest conservation efforts in our country. I acknowledge that poaching and illegal things happen. That unfortunately, a huge human failing.
Bad , contrary behavior is seen broadly and all aspects of our lives.
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You clearly have never participated in the sport of foxhunting.
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We arebuilding our homes in their environments.
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Why cant you just take your horses on a hunt over the hills etc. Why on earth does a helpless animal have to be part of the fun. These hounds are notorious for getting off scent and harassing livestock and also killing wildlife anyhow… The riders and dogs have been a nuisance in UK for years and they have curtailed that sadistic practice. Only in the US do we not see a problem with something much akin to dog fighting, killing just to kill. Drag or not, the idea is the same and wildlife isn’t safe from a pack of dogs and a group of sadists on horseback. Name it something else, don’t resurrect a sick “sport.”
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Every hunt should end without ANY wildlife harmed…not most…My point is I live on a gorgeous farm. I keep my small animals safe and my horses safe in the barn, dogs in the house. I was overjoyed to see a mamma fox and her tiny kits living in the safety of my drain pipe. We have a fill 3 acres dedicated to out family gravesites that go way back to the early 1700s. Since I was born in 1958, fox families have maintained their dens in that graveyard, for the past 60 years with their babies because they know they are safe there. Our family wants nothing to do with these sadists on our property
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So I assume you do not live in a house?
Oh wait, you live on a farm. So you too are using their land? It is OK for you to use the land, just not others?
I can say, that the fox family that lives on my land, year after year (so much fun to watch them hunting in the snow) is not at all bothered by the people who hunt my land (deer, turkey, etc. both gun and bow). The coyotes around here are not bothered either (and I have already said the deer and such do not care).
I am not sure why one needs to call people they do not know so many names.
This made me laugh.
Sorry.
So now the hounds are not chasing the fox, but harassing innocent livestock and killing other wildlife for fun. Got it.
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I can say, I’ve fox hunted across the US on live game (coyotes) for over 10 years and I’ve witnessed a coyote killed twice. Once was because the coyote was mangey and sick (didn’t put up a chase, obviously needed to be put down) and the other time was because the landowner of a cattle operation in which we were hunting on asked us to kill any “vermin” we came upon (including pigs, though we keep the hounds off the pigs as pigs can cause a lot of damage and they aren’t catch dogs). The one time we hopped upon a rare grey fox, the huntsman called off the dogs, as that was NOT the game we were after and they we’re a protected species in the area we were hunting.
It’s actually funny, I’ve seen coyotes sit ontop of a rock, call down to dogs, and then take off running. Only to outsmart the hounds, sit upon a place again, and call at them for more. If you don’t think animals are into the “thrill of the chase” please talk to my pitbull. Her greatest joy in live is being chased - whether its by her dog brothers & sisters, us, or even the horses.
Also - good hounds don’t harass livestock and they call off game when asked. LL seems incredibly uneducated about proper fox hunting in the states, and likely just reads PETA and other articles claiming its a bloodsport. Land and animal conversation is HUGE to proper hunt clubs. I’d encourage them to get out and talk to your local hunt. There are some great ones in the MW!
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