FoxHunting being Encouraged?

[fivestrideline]

Yeah the MOMENT the hounds start harassing livestock is the death of the hunt club. Farmers don’t play games with their animals - that’s living income, after all. A hound that strays is a hound that no longer hunts, simple as that. It usually doesn’t get that far before the hound is retired anyway (ya know, because these people know what they’re doing and pay really close attention to their animals).

I don’t hunt, but I’d love to go foxhunting someday. I have a horse that would be fun I think. In general, hunters (gun and bow especially) are the biggest and most educated land conservationists in the US. Hunt clubs maintain equestrian access to a lot of land that would otherwise be sold off and developed or closed to riders. Population control is a VERY important issue, especially with coyote and deer - introducing wolves just doesn’t work everywhere . The game wardens and federal authorities take poaching VERY seriously, so reporting illicit activity is a great way to help. You do want to go in with some kind of knowledge as to what you’re talking about though - they’ll investigate the report but you’ll get more traction if you aren’t spouting nonsense. (That goes for a lot of things, I think.)

[paintedpennypony]

Have we considered the possibility that this person is trolling… ? And we all took the bait!

[trubandloki]

@paintedpennypony

And we all took the bait!

Or, we have had a great conversation about hunting (both kinds, the kind done with hounds on horseback and the kind done in a tree stand).

It is never wrong to have a good conversation.

[Equibrit]

@LeatherLover

Why cant you just take your horses on a hunt over the hills etc. Why on earth does a helpless animal have to be part of the fun. These hounds are notorious for getting off scent and harassing livestock and also killing wildlife anyhow… The riders and dogs have been a nuisance in UK for years and they have curtailed that sadistic practice. Only in the US do we not see a problem with something much akin to dog fighting, killing just to kill. Drag or not, the idea is the same and wildlife isn’t safe from a pack of dogs and a group of sadists on horseback. Name it something else, don’t resurrect a sick “sport.”

The Quorn “off scent” for Christmas;

365K views · 7.4K reactions | When 15 & half couple of foxhounds are...

Clearly OP is ignorant of the facts, and cannot be taken seriously.

[JenEM]

Trolling, or making assumptions about something they’ve never personally witnessed, based on the bad behavior of non-fox-hunting-hunters in their own area.

Good hunters whatever their type, don’t act the way the OP is railing against. While I do not hunt personally (just done some hunt clinics), I have friends who fox hunt and friends and family who hunt-hunt. None of them would ever dream of acting like the OP describes. In most cases bad behavior by hunters is reported by fellow hunters, who don’t want such negative stereotypes perpetuated, and is often the reason people with land let a known friend of family member hunt it–it keeps the irresponsible folks away, or more likely to be reported.

[MorganMaresVT]

I absolutely appreciate the conservation and management efforts of local hunts. We still have Green Mountain Hounds in VT, and they are an important part of keeping land open for horses. We have an incredibly strong tradition of trail riding, endurance riding and competitive trail in our state, and it’s only possible because so many landowners believe in the value of public use of private land and welcome horses on their properties.

That said, I think some people here are being a little over the top in their defense of all sport hunters as virtuous conservationists who take only what they need to feed their families and leave no trace on the land they hunt. That has not been my recent experience.

In Vermont, we have amongst the strongest public land use ethos in the country - unless private land is properly posted, anyone can use that land at any time for any recreational activity, which is amazing for trail riding, hiking, biking, hunting, etc. Legislation properly protects landowners from lawsuits.

We have a large property and never used to post it, which always just felt like the right thing to do. I benefit tremendously from being able to access other large properties around us for riding. We’ve always had lots of hunters, particularly during turkey and rifle season, as well as a couple of guys who would go out for bear and bow season. Most people would give you the courtesy of a text or quick knock at the door to let you know when they were planning to be out in the woods, but we never had any issues.

A couple of years ago, things went crazy around here with tons of bad behavior- baiting bears with garbage, spotlighting, shooting from trucks on the road and then almost running over people’s dogs if they tried to confront the illegal hunting, non-lethal shots taken on posted property and hazing the wounded deer onto nonposted land to harvest. VT Fish and Game actually ran a “sting” on our property because the spotlighting and after-hours hunting got so bad. Mind you, there are 40 game wardens for the whole state, managing the activities of 75,000 hunters. They are great guys who are very responsive when concerns are called in, but they can only be in so many places at once.

This bad behavior was all being done by local “good old boys,” from families with generations of hunting experience - they knew the rules. They just didn’t care. All the respectful, legitimate hunters knew this was happening, they also just weren’t willing to rock the boat in a small town by giving the drunk idiots a talking to and telling them to stop ruining land access for everyone.

So unfortunately that’s what ultimately happened - after years of not doing it, we finally posted our property last year. I still feel awful about doing that, but it has significantly cut down on the road hunting and spotlighting. And we still of course allow access for anyone we know who asks, that’s not a problem. I just really hate that the norms of being responsible and conscientious about how you go about things are falling by the wayside. I know this is not just happening in my area, it’s happening to lots of people I know who have allowed hunting for decades all over New England. So let’s not overstate the virtuosity of sport hunters without acknowledging the real challenges that jeopardize land access for all of us, regardless of what our recreational activities are.

[Annie10]

@LeatherLover

Why cant you just take your horses on a hunt over the hills etc. Why on earth does a helpless animal have to be part of the fun. These hounds are notorious for getting off scent and harassing livestock and also killing wildlife anyhow… The riders and dogs have been a nuisance in UK for years and they have curtailed that sadistic practice. Only in the US do we not see a problem with something much akin to dog fighting, killing just to kill. Drag or not, the idea is the same and wildlife isn’t safe from a pack of dogs and a group of sadists on horseback. Name it something else, don’t resurrect a sick “sport.”

I have never seen any of this happen in a lifetime of hunting. How insulting not only to the hounds but also to the huntsman and staff who carefully breed and then work with their hounds daily to ensure that they listen and are biddable.
I bet you can’t even walk one dog nicely on a leash, yet hunt staff routinely handle 20 or more off leash .

[Annie10]

@LeatherLover

Every hunt should end without ANY wildlife harmed…not most…My point is I live on a gorgeous farm. I keep my small animals safe and my horses safe in the barn, dogs in the house. I was overjoyed to see a mamma fox and her tiny kits living in the safety of my drain pipe. We have a fill 3 acres dedicated to out family gravesites that go way back to the early 1700s. Since I was born in 1958, fox families have maintained their dens in that graveyard, for the past 60 years with their babies because they know they are safe there. Our family wants nothing to do with these sadists on our property

Then that is your right not to allow it on your property.

[CBoylen]

@LeatherLover

Why cant you just take your horses on a hunt over the hills etc. Why on earth does a helpless animal have to be part of the fun. These hounds are notorious for getting off scent and harassing livestock and also killing wildlife anyhow… The riders and dogs have been a nuisance in UK for years and they have curtailed that sadistic practice. Only in the US do we not see a problem with something much akin to dog fighting, killing just to kill. Drag or not, the idea is the same and wildlife isn’t safe from a pack of dogs and a group of sadists on horseback. Name it something else, don’t resurrect a sick “sport.”

Again, the aim is not to kill anything. You seem to have bought into a lot of propaganda. A pack of hounds is a well honed machine. They do not chase things they are not supposed to. Hounds that are trained to run fox or coyote only follow the scent of fox or coyote. They are not sight hounds. The fox often goes right by in view of them. They follow scent. They don’t harass deer, livestock, other dogs, or cats because they are exposed to them as puppies and trained not to. They recall individually or as a pack immediately; it’s essential to their safety. A hunt that is a nuisance wouldn’t last long because land owners would not invite them back.

[paintedpennypony]

Saying that we took the bait was in jest! I always appreciate the conversations that happen here, but I don’t think OP is acting in good faith like everyone else is. It is easy to misconstrue things over the internet though, hope I’m wrong and this thread positively impacts them.

[ParadoxFarm]

@LeatherLover

Then there are the pseudo hunters that lease ground and practically shoot anything or anyone that moves.

Am I reading this correctly that you have multiple cases of people shooting at other people?? Hard to tell with the word “practically”.

[Annie10]

@ParadoxFarm

@LeatherLover

Then there are the pseudo hunters that lease ground and practically shoot anything or anyone that moves.

Am I reading this correctly that you have multiple cases of people shooting at other people?? Hard to tell with the word “practically”.

Just histrionics exaggeration and hyperbole to try to inflame everybody

[GraceLikeRain]

One of the fixtures in my area is 600 acres. They hunt on it probably a dozen times a year. The owner was going to sell it to a developer and then someone got them into horses and fox hunting. There’s never been a kill on that property and in exchange for 12 days of hunting a year, a massive swath of valuable land is being protected. It’s mostly second and third flight so lots of bopping around on the buckle chatting. They have additional acreage that is across a road so it can’t be used - hounds and roads aren’t a safe combo here. However. This land is now not for sale either because they don’t want a neighborhood by a fixture. So in total almost 800 acres are preserved. This is a win by any measure.

[Calvincrowe]

As a person who does not hunt, either on horseback or for game of any kind, I still take offense at the vitriol and disinformation posted by the OP.
OP- are you a vegan? Vegetarian? Consumer of eggs or pork? The commercial livestock industry in the US should be something you are aware of, and its practices which are/can be appalling.

As to hunters: your state’s fish and wildlife department should be made aware of the atrocities you’ve listed! My goodness, why aren’t you out protesting each fall?! Going to your local representative or senator and laying out your evidence of these misdeeds??! If your state/area is this bad, I’m sure others would band together with you to stop what you claim is happening. Here in WA, when poaching happens, local people get outraged and report it, WA F/G investigate (I love my local game officers-- dedicated, hardworking, compassionate men and women) and prosecute when they are able. Now, of course, they are woefully underfunded and the laws around animal cruelty/abuse, wanton waste, poaching, etc. are not what most of us would think of as punishing, but that’s our job to again, appeal to our legislators to change them. Are you doing that??

[Red_Dust]

“why can’t you just watch the horses run around without betting on them”
The OP sounds a little like Terry Garr’s character in ‘Let it ride’

Last I checked, ‘field dressing’ a deer was removing the entrails, but not ‘leaving a carcass’
The latter could have been done (if that was true) to feed scavengers. As the old saying goes: Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms.
Other than that, the OP reminds of folks from discussions decades ago, why people raise animals for meat, when they can just buy it at the store so no animal gets hurt.

As far as poaching goes, depending on where one lives, chances are there are some really poor folks out there. Sure, the tags are usually cheap, but often even that is too much money.

And not to mention that in most parts of the US humans have removed the apex predators. Deer have become a pest.

[FjordBCRF]

@Red_Dust

why people raise animals for meat, when they can just buy it at the store so no animal gets hurt.

At one point when my dad was plant based but my mom wasn’t, he decided to raise chickens so she could have truly free range/non factory farmed chicken. My ex husband was showing the chickens to his nephew, whose existence was the result of chicken nuggets and little else lol. Mine you, the kid was 11 or 12 at the time…not a super youngster. I said something about chickens being where chicken nuggets come from and the kid was miffed and a little upset. He had NO idea chicken nuggets came from chicken. I asked him why he thought they were called chicken nuggets and he had no idea

The amount of county fair goers that don’t realize what is actually happening at the livestock auctions is also a head scratcher.

[phantomhorse]

Thank you for drawing attention to this article, which I would have otherwise missed. I had no idea the Monmouth hunt was doing such a thing and sure hope to attend if they do it again in the spring! Will be a great learning experience for my young horse.

[Not_Your_Janice]

As a fairly active fox hunter enthusiast and rider who has yet to see a single fox be killed by hounds, I refuse to rise to the bait of this troll. However, on another note I own a “hog dog” and they are very similar to bay dogs that keep the hunted animals rounded up and “at bay” until the hunter shows up. Watching our dog work is really fascinating and amazing. He helps me round up the chickens and other animals as needed and never touches a hair on them.

[SLW]

My Jack Russel terriers killed more wildlife on our very small farm than any pack of hounds I followed on horseback- who caught exactly 1 coyote- for nearly 20 years. Damn sadist JRT’s.

[2bayboys]

My German Shorthair had a grand hunt of a big red fox on the property adjacent to our farm today. I was hacking a young horse around the perimeter, and the fox was following the same track, in a great big circle. The dog had a fabulous time, I had several good views, and the fox never broke out of a canter. Same dog has killed many groundhogs, squirrels, and baby rabbits, so I guess he’s a damn sadist too.