Fox and coyote pens were a huge issue in FL some years ago. It became a black market of coyotes and foxes being brought in from out of state to put into the pens. The use of the term “pen” is often misleading as the “pen” is often several hundred to a thousand acres. Not always but often.
HOWEVER
no mounted foxhunts were involved with this activity. It was the night hunters and the dog hunters who like to sit in their trucks and shoot things as they run by.
A large long term undercover investigation was conducted by what was at the time Florida Freshwater fish and wildlife commission and at least one federal agency and a couple of other states game commissions. Several people were arrested, laws strengthened and the activity was stopped.
Not to say that it can’t wont or isn’t still happening because some just don’t care about what the laws are, but not on as large a scale and some definite wind was taken out of their sails.
I believe in Great Britain the hunts are mostly drag hunts so no actual fox is involved. I have plenty of friends who fox hunt regularly and never once have heard them regale about seeing the hounds shred a fox. That does not happen. There are days when the hounds don’t ever pick up a scent.
As far as foxes being harmless? Might want to ask those who raise chickens and sheep. They’ll be glad to let you know just how “harmless” those foxes are - it might be after they clean up what was their chickens or sheep
I’m in the UK, in a fox hunting area, fox hunting in this country is now trail hunting, and has been for many years. The riders, horses and hounds are following a scent trail laid by a cross country runner - and that’s how it’s been for decades.
They are in turn pursued by saboteurs in military clothing and with their faces covered, who spend the rest of their time online begging for donations for “saving the foxes” - it’s a good gig if you don’t want to work and enjoy deliberately diverting hounds onto roads in front of cars and terrorising children on their ponies.
I think hunting will die out, mainly because of “fake news” that is spread by people like the OP who actually have no idea about it, and I’m hoping that those people will then step up and house the hounds and provide jobs and housing to the hunt staff - but I’m guessing it’ll be crickets.
Thinking further, do the kennels still take horses to feed the hounds? It sounds gruesome but was a blessing for many, disposing of a horse body isn’t always easy or cheap. The employment goes further than just hunt staff, we all understand the industry behind this, farriers, saddlers, transport, feed manufacturers etc. I guess this is all gradually dwindling away as the hunts get chased into extinction.
Where I am, yes, they do. If you need your old or sick horse kindly finished, the hunt will come and do it for you and take the carcass away for butchering for the hounds. It’s very common here, and many owners prefer it.
My understanding is that it takes a specific setup in the kennels to be able to handle butchering and feeding flesh, as well as a lot of fridge and freezer space.
A hunt near me feed flesh for over 30 years to my knowledge, when the kennel building burnt down and they had to rebuild, they no longer took in horses for the kennels.
ETA: They also used to take other farm animals that needed to be euthed, and farm animal bodies that couldn’t be feed to be cremated. They picked up deer for me, not to feed, but to burn in the pit as a favor so my dogs wouldn’t be gorging on it.
My understanding is that most hunts and wild animal facilities no longer take horses because of potential toxicity from pentobarbital when they are euthanized. “Back in the day” when it was a bolt to the head this was not an issue.
My vet was telling me a story about how he had just put an old horse down and one of the dogs licked some of the blood that dribbled out the nose before they could stop it, and they almost lost the dog.
Makes sense. I “was told” years ago that the San Diego Wild animal park (which I live near) used to take horses but no longer for many years. Not just because of euth meds, but all the other stuff that horses now get- wormers, ABx and whatever else. Wormers didn’t quite make sense to me as I’m sure they worm the big cats, but who knows what people give their horses these days that would upset a big cat system.
I have not looked into it further and when I had to put my heart horse (superb fox hunter BTW - was hunt horse of the year 8 or 9 years ago to keep the post relevant to topic) down a few years ago, it never entered my head to inquire about sending her body to the animal park. Not that I necessarily would have had a problem with it, but it was very emotional time
I am not doubting your vet but the last sentence does not make sense to me.
I worked for an equine vet for 10 years, a small animal vet for 5 years and have owned horses for 40 years so I’ve assisted in no less than 70 equine euthanasias and double that number in companion animals, plus all my own personal cats and dogs. We never had to practice extraordinary precautions when handling animals chemically euthanized who might have bled out somewhere, not did we insist that for their safety, farm dogs be kept away from the euthanized horse(or cow because Doc did those too) until it was removed. Very interesting experience your vet observed and I’m sorry for that dog.
Now Regumate was a whole different thing. No bare skin while getting those doses ready!! Whew.
IDK , just relaying what he told me. It made sense to me at the time as the drug must become systemic for it to work and the body mass of a dog is much smaller than a horse so I could see that licking blood would introduce the med to the dog system. I’ve only been present for 5 horse euthanasias (thankfully- it’s so awful when they go down 🥹) so your experience is much more than mine.
Having sadly recent experience with this, I can tell you that the hunt kennels restrictions on drugs were as, or more, stringent than the big cat zoos.
I had a horse that was on Previcox, Prascend, and to treat his acute issue, steriods, The zoo’s withdrawal times were more lenient than the hunt kennels!
Sadly, withdrawal of any of those drugs was not a humane option for the geriatric animal in question.
In looking back, the criteria for “sending a horse to the kennels” has become increasingly hard to meet in modern times. Even if a horse broke a leg, would I be willing to withhold pain meds just so the horse’s body could be donated? I don’t think I could.
Is there a senior horse out there that isn’t on Previcox, Prascend or bute?
Agreed. It seems like it would likely be limited to non emergency neuro or behavior issues type of situations. A humane placed bullet is not an unkind end but I do agree that withdrawing medical comforts to make a carcass useful would be ethically questionable at best.
Of the half dozen or so horses I know who have had to be put down in the last few years, only one met the criteria for the hunt, a younger gelding who was such a conformational hot mess leading to intermittent unsoundness that the sport medicine vet said while he could be drugged to the gills to be consistently sound, it wouldn’t be fair to him. He was young enough and hadn’t been on strong meds so was a candidate (bullet euth on site), every other horse was old enough and/or ill enough that they had chemical euth at home.
Medication is much more controlled in the UK and in Europe where a horse is more likely to be used for animal or human consumption. I’m only aware of two kennels in the US that feed flesh, but most of the hunt staff was trained in the UK and are skilled with a bullet if needed in an emergency.
My coming 32 year old was on bute briefly a couple months ago, but otherwise med free for years. I have often said that we’re going to have to shoot her to get rid of her. She comes from very sturdy stock.