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Freakin hikers! Hold on to your dogs!!! grrrrrr

Endurance and Trail Riding
#21

[QUOTE=GoForAGallop;4820778]
Well, you’re the one who couldn’t control your horse. Which yes, is your fault.

So was she.

Well if that is indeed the case, my apologies. But your original post stated that you had enough time to chat with the owner about the dogs passing, which made me assume that your horse had plenty of time to notice that the three dogs were hovering around said lady.

You didn’t say the dog was frothing at the mouth and growling, or in any way indicating that he was going to bite. You said “sniffing around the back legs”. Which is what curious dogs do. Dogs who are intended on biting are growling, stand off at a distance, and lunge.

Oh, you charming thing. Take your own advice and go note that I DIDN’T say that you said such a thing. I just mentioned that there’s no need to be ranting against dog owners, since we need to live peacefully with them because they outweigh us and out number us by far.

Nope, but I’d still expect her to behave reasonably around dogs, even if they are -gasp!- running. And having been the main-rider of a horse almost 80% blind in BOTH eyes, who was also an excellent and bomb-proof trail horse, that’s not an impossible thing to ask.

Don’t know why you’d feel sorry for them…they’re fat, happy, and not afraid of dogs, so we tend to have a lot of peaceful trail rides…[/QUOTE]

you knew the dogs were there all you had to do was face them your in control of your horse you didnt have to smack the dog with a whip

how would you have felt if the lady or dog owner had smacked your horse with her leash

people have just as much right as another to be some where be it with a dog or 3 dogs if your riding on the same trial as hikers then you know full well you will mostly likely bump into a person or a person with a couple of dogs or a cyclist - so your aware of whats happening around you

control is being in control of what you see hear and do and to be in control of your animals - hers got loose so you hit it- nice
it was an accident- he got loose however which way she controls her dogs
and she appologised - no need to hit her dog
all you had to do was turn your horse around so she could see what it was
as for the eye sight - i have a horse whos blind and has less vision than yours so you have to be more aware of your enviroment - and more quicker with your aids and sometimes give a stronger aid is needed as they relaying on you - if you lacked the confidence to ride with a lady with three dogs then you have told your horse something scarey by your sub concious so effectively - already spooked the unsighted horse
so when the dog got loose he spooked moreso

was it right to hit the dog--------- no it wasnt
he was sniffing and wasnt hurting your horse nor you
didnt bark or bite - yet you hit him for no reason

had that been me - would have waited for the lady and said are you ok luckily the dog came here and didnt run off- no harm done
and waited till she caught him up or would have got off and caught the dog myself and waited for the lady to catch up
and then given him back

what if the horse was loose and the lady with the three dogs got hold off him
and hit him - what would you say then ,
and she had hit him for intereferng with her dogs

how say you -----same thing but in reverse ----what you did was out of order

#22

I find it amazing that your horse didn’t bolt after dumping you. I would consider that a silver lining.

You know it’s funny – I have a horse who would not be safe around a bolting dog dragging a retractable leash. Therefore, I don’t take him out. And I get heck from EVERYBODY who knows this that I’m afraid, I’m babying my horse, I’m not facing my issues, “it’s a hole” I’m not addressing, “they” could get my horse over his not-trail-safe-ness in a heartbeat…

You just can’t win. If you go out and get dumped, you’re an idiot for going out when your horse “isn’t ready.” If you don’t go out, you’re an idiot for not going out.

I’m glad you weren’t hurt.

#23

[QUOTE=Huntertwo;4820865]

If she gives her horse “A come to Jesus” moment whenever it is scared, yes, I feel sorry for her horse.[/QUOTE]

You’re the next state over from me, feel free to take a drive up to my barn and meet my steady-eddy trail horse. He’s a big, bossy alpha who’s always eager to head out for a ride. Somehow, despite being told to “Knock it off!” a few times while spooking at something ridiculous (a dog, or those dangerous yellow lines on the road), he’s not cowering in the corner of his stall shaking in fear every time my 100lb self walks into the barn. :lol:

If you were at EA this year and happened to catch the Susan Harris exhibit, you’ll have seen him as the Visible Horse. A very nervous visible horse who was a little overwhelmed by all the hustle and bustle. And he certainly wasn’t being disciplined for that. But a dog? He knows better.

#24

h2 go out with a pack of hounds then your horse wont be afraid of the odd dog or 2 or 3 lol
sometimes in our woods we bump in the hunt - dogs people horses
people of foot with dogs aswell
plus horn going all the huslte and bustle and galloping hooves
comming thundering up behind you lol
hah love it join in and ride with thehunt for a bit for free lol

#25

[QUOTE=dalpal;4820854]
Ummm, folks…I hate to break this to you…but far more people own dogs than horses…yes, some aren’t really bright, some make mistakes. People have just as much right to the trails with their dogs as you do with your horse. [/QUOTE]

Most of my issues with other trail users is from problems I’ve had while hiking. Not sure how you read what I wrote and got “wah wah mean doggies shouldn’t be on the trail” out of it.

There is no excuse for having an out of control dog out on a public trail. That sort of stupidity is what ends up getting dogs banned from public areas. I like hiking with my dogs. Mine are actually trained though. That means I do not let them harass other trail users. I’d be pissed if I have to start leaving my dogs at home because of total idiots like the woman the OP described.

#26

Some horses, no matter how well trained, do not like dogs. Or, they do not tolerate dogs.

I fully assume responsibility for my horse during rides. I expect others to assume responsibility for their dogs.

Yes, accidents do happen!

I would much prefer someone hit my dog with a whip, if it got loose as described in OP, than it getting kicked by a horse.

I have seen a dog get kicked in the head by a horse. Not a pretty site! If that whip keeps dog from getting kicked, so be it. I would not mind it at all. It might even keep dog from “sniffing” horse’s legs.

I would rather someone protect their horse if they perceive my dog a threat. I may not really like it, but I see both sides of it!

Certainly the OP was protecting horse. It can also be viewed as the OP protecting the dog.

My mare is well versed on the trail and will react in place if she is spooked. She has had dogs loose on trail with her…no reaction. However, if a dog is sniffing her hocks, I would certainly expect her to double barrell the dog. I would worry about her hocks as well…

I would chase dog away from her to protect the dog and horse…for reasons stated above.

There are two sides to every coin. I can see OP’s reasons for being upset and doing what she did!

#27

I’m with GLS and GoforaGallop. So the dog got loose - big deal. Accidents happen, you had time to talk to the dog owner, you knew they were there, you should have been prepared. You should have turned and faced the dog when it got loose. Turning would have let your horse see what was happening and it usually stops a running dog in its tracks.

Your horse spooked and you fell off that’s why you’re pissed. Your pride is hurt. Hitting the curious dog, glaring and giving the dog owner the silent treatment does nothing to help the image of the rider as snobby elitist. As for the dog owner’s comment about barking I’m sure she was trying to diffuse a tense situation with a lame attempt at humor.

Frankly I think you handled the whole situation poorly.

#28

Arab pony and I walking along a suburban road. Large German Shepherd dog races out from a gate just as we pass. Barks and snarls at pony’s hocks. Pony lifts one leg and give a nicely timed kick. Crack of bone, dog howls and goes home. Pony and I continue along the road.
BUT: now I have a pony who goes sideways every time she sees a dog she doesn’t know, which complicates every ride we take. As far as I’m concerned any dog that isn’t under it’s owner’s control, and shows antisocial tendencies, deserves what it gets.

#29

The dog got loose. That is purely the fault of the owner. Seriously. . .a flexi-lead secured with Velcro?:eek: I hate those flexi leads to begin with, and would like to see them wiped off the market altogether. They’re one of the worst ideas in the history of bad ideas in the pet supply industry.

But, I hate to say it, it’s really not as much the dog or owner’s fault that the rider fell off. And falling is really not a good reason to take a whip to the person’s dog. Part of being a trail rider means being prepared, be aware of your surroundings, and able to “sit” a spook.

What if it wasn’t a dog? What if it was a deer, or a wild turkey, or rabbit that came darting through the woods? That’s usually a situation you (as the rider) are not as prepared for, and one the horse isn’t prepared for, either.

This is a case of “get up, dust yourself off, get back in the saddle, and learn from it so it doesn’t happen again.”

#30

Okay for the people who just don’t get it.

We were facing the dog. We were not close to each other when we talked.
Dog comes running down the trail dragging retractable lease that was held on to owner’s arm by velcro.

Would you use velcro to tighten your girth and be surprised when it didn’t hold? :rolleyes:

She has been my trail pony for 6 years. We have encountered Deer, Turkey, birds flying up from under her feet, Dirt Bikes, ATVs, Bicyclists, Mountain Bikes, chain saws, barking dogs on leashes, snow-shoers, log splitters, PLANES taking off over our heads. (See my first couple of paragraphs)

We have leash laws around here - meaning you must have control over your dog at all times when in public.

Legally, I could have been a real beech and called the police.

And YES! I will crack another dog with my whip should it come running after us.
If it is between my pony possibly getting bit or a charging dog??? The dog is going to get smacked. Hands down.

End of story.

#31

I cannot believe the people who are arguing that an out of control, full grown Boxer ripping the leash away from his owner and charging a horse is ACCEPTABLE. Are you guys on crack? Seriously - the HORSE is stupid, and the owner is unprepared and shouldn’t have the horse in public, and the horse should be whacked and reprimanded and told to “knock it off.” That’s insane.

When you own a dog, you have a responsibility to make sure that dog is well under control and well socialized before taking it out into public. If this was a Pit Bull, Rottie, Dobie, etc. the board would be outraged that this big dangerous breed dog was taken into public without the appropriate equipment to contain him.

Horses need to be trained and exposed to many things, yes. I agree that when you ride out on trails, you are accepting certain risks. If you aren’t willing to accept that risk, then you need to stay home. Horses need to be under control, disciplined, and well mannered before they are taken out into public. However, horses don’t typically charge and attack others on the trail. They spook and bolt to get away from danger. They are prey. Dogs are predators. I would not reprimand my horse for spooking and dumping me when charged and attacked by a large breed dog on a trail. Horses have eons of innate prey instinct governing many of their actions, and when you choose to ride a horse you choose to accept the risk that fight or flight may kick in at some point. The OP was dumped when the horse spooked. It happens all the time. To tell her she should have reprimanded her horse for that is crazy.

I own 3 big dogs, one being a 100 pound Pit Bull. I would not DREAM of taking one of my dogs onto a public trail, velcroed to my arm. That’s just stupid. When I walk my 3 dogs at the same time, two are attached with a coupler and the Pit is by himself on the other side. I use short, sturdy leashes and my dogs wear prong pinch collars. They walk very nicely on leash but that way I am well prepared for anything that might happen. We have been rushed and approached by strange dogs that were off-leash and I need to be able to clamp down on that pinch collar and have all the control in the world “should” they decide to attack the loose dog. As the owner of a powerful breed dog, the LAST thing in the world that I need is to be proven that I was negligent should something happen. (He’s a very sweet dog though that would rather lick you to death than bite, but I still take steps to avoid disaster because animals are animals and you just never know)

If the Boxer woman’s dog had bitten the OP or her horse, she could have been in a world of trouble because she failed to contain the dangerous dog appropriately. Most states have leash laws, and if that dog was off-leash, and was acting viciously, then a person has the right to protect themself from said vicious dog. The horse’s rider has NO knowledge of that dog’s training, tendencies, past history, or ability to inflict damage. For all she knew, maybe that dog had a history of biting and she was WELL within her rights and responsibilities to protect herself and the horse anyway that she could.

#32

Amen.

A horse I owned as a teenager was attacked by loose dogs and there was significant damage. A well placed bite can lay a horse up for months and I’d rather have a dog with a whelt across his shoulder than a horse with a severed tendon.

#33

oh blah blah blah.

This rattle and hum from the gal who wants guard rails on trails.

Shinola happens.

We encountered a big fat mylar ballon with Frosty the snowman’s face on it- floating, tethered to a tree branch deeeeeep in the woods. Chip’s heart pounded out of his chest in cartoonlike fashion trying to sort that face. That’s it, ban balloons!

Another time with 3 pack horses it’s a gal in one of those funny pointed chinese hats, warning us of a string of llamas behind her. I’m on a 90 day horse, Mr CBM’s on a 60 day horse, and none of them top to bottom knew llamas. Llama peeps hid in the dark woods so they wouldn’t scare our horses, promptly scaring the horses who couldn’t cypher the weird smells and odd lumpy profiles bobbing their heads. Had a llama pulled loose and sniffed my horse- it’s MY fault and on ME if I come off. Bad llama bad! I can’t strike one, she might spit on me :slight_smile:

Own it, sister. You just flat fell off.

What if the gal had tripped and dropped the leash in trying to catch herself, and there was no velcro to place your blame on? Then what? Rocks for tripping over? No rocks, no rocks! Ban the rocks!

Tempest in a teapot.

#34

Frankly, I think the OP giving the dog a good smack with the whip was a good thing. In my opinion, there now stands a very good chance the dog has learned that the back legs of a horse are a bad thing, and should be avoided. You might be saving the dog from getting a hoof to his brain in the future.

The dog’s owner failed to use common sense - a velcro attachment is not going to hold a full grown, adult boxer when it wants to leave. Period.

#35

My very green horse Shelby is dog trained. She figured this out all on her own – if doggie comes a runnin’ or a sniffin’, kick it squarely and firmly out of her personal space.

A dog owner who thinks it’s OK to let their dog run up to a horse is, at a minimum, just asking for a vet bill.

#36

JMHO!

I’m in the camp that the OP handled this situation poorly. 'Her 'tude sounds a bit…entitled…to me. She did not say that she was on public land. If it was private; did she have permission to ride there? Did the hiker I wonder? When this same situation presents itself to me (and it has many times) often the hiker IS the landowner or a friend of the landowner or a neighbor. And I have to apologize for my horses behavior!!! :winkgrin:

I see this as a simple horses & dogs doing what comes natural and neither should be punished. Both should be taught about the other. You should have used this as a training opportunity. And I think hitting those dogs was totally not OK. Dogs have a right to be there too. Loose OK for dogs; NOT horses! Get over it! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

#37

being both a horse rider and a hiker-with-dogs I have to say the horse riders I meet tend to be total PITAS. I frequently walk the dogs down some multi-user (but lightly used) trails near my house. The rules of these trails allow off-leash dogs; the dogs are only required to “be under the owner’s control”. So you’re walking along, you see a horse, you call your dogs to heel, and shift sideways on the trail, intending to calmly walk past the horse while it calmly walks past you. Guess how many of the horse-riders freak out, scream at you, order you to attach leashes, ask you to stand still, or request you move totally off the trail? guess how many of the horses act spooky about something, dogs and people calmly walking along, they should have seen over and over and over again?
We also meet joggers, other hikers, and bikers while on these same trails and they just take us in stride and shift over to the other side and we pass calmly.

As a horse-rider I find the dog owners, while apparently for the most part unable to train dogs or exhibit any signs of common sense, are usually apologetic and embarrassed by their beasts behavior. When we meet people with dogs while out trail riding we just assume they are idiots and the dogs are untrained, and just attempt to slow down enough to give the owner time to get the dogs under control, and quietly shift over and pass them. Most of the time the dogs are clearly not used to horses, and either are scared, bark, or get away from the owners and run around behind the horse and sniff at the legs, while the dog owner apologizes and tries to catch their beast. Never had one actually attempt to bite or attack the horses.

#38

[QUOTE=Huntertwo;4821578]
Okay for the people who just don’t get it.

We were facing the dog. We were not close to each other when we talked.
Dog comes running down the trail dragging retractable lease that was held on to owner’s arm by velcro.

Would you use velcro to tighten your girth and be surprised when it didn’t hold?

She has been my trail pony for 6 years. We have encountered Deer, Turkey, birds flying up from under her feet, Dirt Bikes, ATVs, Bicyclists, Mountain Bikes, chain saws, barking dogs on leashes, snow-shoers, log splitters, PLANES taking off over our heads. (See my first couple of paragraphs)

We have leash laws around here - meaning you must have control over your dog at all times when in public.

Legally, I could have been a real beech and called the police.

And YES! I will crack another dog with my whip should it come running after us.
If it is between my pony possibly getting bit or a charging dog??? The dog is going to get smacked. Hands down.

End of story. [/QUOTE]

Oh, I think most people get it. Your horse spooked at a dog that the owner accidentally let loose and you fell off. And you were so incensed about it that you were a beyotch to the owner when she apologized.

So you come here to regale the BB with your big, bad story of the awful dog owner. But there is a significant number of posters who think shit happens on trails and you should get the hell over yourself. And now you’re pissed off about that.

End of story.

#39

Think it was just one of those things in life called an accident. I do not think the dog owner meant any harm.

I think you jumped the gun by going to the dressage whip immediately when the dog was just sniffing. I think a verbal correction would have been more appropriate first.

#40

What mp said.

We’ve all been there. I’ve turned my horse to face down bigger dogs than a boxer trying to sniff around the back legs while calmly telling the dog owner that some horses will kick. So to whoever said we’d be screaming if it was a rottie or a pitbull - not so much. I don’t tend to borrow trouble. And when I fall off? You know what? It usually is my fault. :slight_smile:

Oh, and if you hit my dog - I’d be pissed. My dogs are horse saavy but rescue mutt sometimes gets too close. If he gets kicked that’s on him and me but not for you to go whipping him. He’s usually just trying to get a good look at who’s riding to see if he knows them.

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