Freakin hikers! Hold on to your dogs!!! grrrrrr

[mp]

@Auventera Two;4831867

It’s funny how these arguments go. If you posted that on one of the anti-pit bull threads, you’d start a riot. If a Pit is involved, the dog is ALWAYS at fault - even if he’s tied up in his own back yard behind a 9 foot barbed wire fence, and someone opens the gate, walks in, and taunts him. The Pit will always be at fault and criminalized for acting aggressively.

If this dog were a loose Pit Bull that broke loose from the owner, dragging the flexi leash and ran up to the horse’s hindquarters, everybody would be telling Huntertwo to beat the dog harder and do what she had to do to protect herself.

And what do pit bulls have to do with this discussion? Let me answer that for you: Nothing.

ANY dog can do harm without provocation or much warning - Pit Bull or Chihuahua, makes no difference. If a dog tears it’s leash off its owner’s arm and charges me and my horse, he’ll be darned lucky if all that happens is a whack with the crop. Maybe that whack taught him he ought not charge up to a horse’s hind legs. That seems FAR kinder than what a horse could do which is kick his skull in and send him to never never land.

Facts are - large breed, powerful dog tears leash away from owner and runs toward the horse and rider causing her to be thrown, then she protects herself from preceived threat by whacking dog with a crop. It seems to me she was WELL within her rights to protect herself from threat - be it actual, or preceived. In the heat of the moment, when adrenaline is flowing, you can’t always sit there for 45 seconds analyzing the dog’s demeanor, apparent temperament, and body language and make a rational decision if you/horse are in danger or not. You react instantly to protect yourself and your horse. In hindsight, if you realize the dog probably wasn’t going to attack and bite, then I guess you apologize to the dog’s owner and what’s done is done. But I’d rather whack the dog first and hopefully protect the horse from what could be serious damage.

And come on people - a whack with a dressage whip isn’t going to cause any long term damage to the dog. It won’t break bones or skin. The worst her crop whack is going to do will leave a little sore spot for a few days. Wooo. It was a split second decision that any of us could have also made in the heat of the moment. Especially after you’ve been tossed off the horse and now you’re on the ground with a 70 or 80 pound dog that may or may not turn aggressive.

I’m a dog owner and lover and I see nothing wrong with Huntertwo protecting herself in this situation. And if at any time, one of my 3 dogs tore the leash away from me and charged at someone else, I would FULLY expect them to defend themselves any way they saw fit. If that means my dog was injured in the process, oh well. My fault for not containing my animal in a public situation.

Some of the people here that are defending the dog owner are the same people who have posted on farrier threads that they fully allow and encourage a farrier to haul off and whack their horse for doing what the farrier believe is out of line. So you allow a farrier to hit your horse with a rasp or kick him in the belly, but you don’t believe it’s fair to whack a strange dog with a dressage whip when he charges up to your horse’s hind end. So it’s ok for someone to hit your horse as discipline for doing something wrong, but don’t you dare hit a dog that’s charging at your horse and might do damage. LMAO. Too funny.

I agree that any dog can do harm. And I really don’t have much of a problem with her hitting the dog with her whip, if it made her feel better (but apparently it didn’t because she’s still hanging around bitching and making juvenile remarks about the people who don’t agree with her).

And I agree that riders should do what they can to protect themselves from aggressive dogs. Except, in this instance, the dog wasn’t aggressive – it ran toward her and she fell off the horse. And the dog didn’t attack, it sniffed her horse’s leg. Oh, the horrors.

What I don’t agree with is this attitude that the world must stop and no one can make a mistake or quick move because I. am. on. my. horse. No, it does not. You need to learn to deal with the world from horseback.

I used to be a timid rider, and I’m very conscious of others who are less than comfortable in the saddle. I try not to make them nervous, whether I’m on or off my horse. But at some point you just have to say learn to deal with your surroundings.
Or get off.

And this is one of those cases.

[Always_Tardy]

Might want to check your facts as it is Dogs at large that they are referring to:
Connecticut Leash Law
Under Connecticut law, it is unlawful to permit a dog to run at large. The only exception is for hunting dogs. Under this statute, if an owner or keeper permits a dog to run at large when the owner or keeper knows, or should have known, of the dog’s vicious propensities, and the dog bites someone, the owner or keeper is not only subject to civil liability, but can also be fined up to $1,000 and be imprisoned for six months. The only defense is when the victim teased, tormented, or abused the dog.22-364. Dogs roaming at large. Intentional or reckless subsequent violation

Another website:

(a) No owner or keeper of any dog shall allow such dog to roam at large upon the land of another and not under control of the owner or keeper or the agent of the owner or keeper, nor allow such dog to roam at large on any portion of any public highway and not attended or under control of such owner or keeper or his agent, provided nothing in this subsection shall be construed to limit or prohibit the use of hunting dogs during the open hunting or training season. The unauthorized presence of any dog on the land of any person other than the owner or keeper of such dog or on any portion of a public highway when such dog is not attended by or under the control of such owner or keeper, shall be prima facie evidence of a violation of the provisions of this subsection. Violation of any provision of this subsection shall be an infraction.

(b) Any owner or keeper of any dog who, knowing of the vicious propensities of such dog and having violated the provisions of subsection (a) of this section within the preceding year, intentionally or recklessly violates the provisions of subsection (a) of this section shall be fined not more than one thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than six months, or both, if such dog, while roaming at large, causes physical injury to another person and such other person was not teasing, tormenting or abusing such dog.

This is a summary of the statutes by a Law Firm Website:

The general statutes do not mandate that dogs be on leashes at all times, but they specify that an owner must always keep his dog under control and off of private property (unless authorized). A copy of the statute is attached, or see: CGS § 22-364.

Local governments may create leash ordinances (Stafford does not require leashes).
Although the State park one is correct:CONNECTICUT

The Environmental Protection Department does require that owners keep their dogs leashed in state parks. A copy of the regulation is attached, or see: CT State Parks and Forests - Pets.

[Always_Tardy]

I’ve been following this thread and I do see both sides. I have dogs and friends would encourage me to off leash them but I would not because both were very large, curious, and fairly independent. And I admit, not as well trained as I would have liked. So they had leashes. But to be fair, hitting the dog may have escalated the situation. Apparently, the proper out come was achieved and dog moved away from horse and rider. But it easily could have gone the other way, dog jumps into horse from the unexpected pain and horse kicks or bolts, or dog could have snapped in the direction of pain, possibly biting you or the horse.
The owner made a huge error with the velco, but possibly has done that lots of times with no bad out come. It was an accident and was hopefully a learning experience for both. I’ve had barn cat jump in front of my horse in the arena, causing a spook, so it can happen anywhere. I am glad you weren’t seriously hurt and may your next trail ride be less eventful!
Helen

[pmysliwski]

I truly believe that the dog getting loose from the velcro was an accident and accidents do happen.

The dog owner was probably mortified that the OP fell off and would have begun to apologized profusely up until the point the OP proceeded to beat the dog “as hard as she could” with her whip in anger. The dog owner’s thoughts then most likely turned from “Gee I hope she’s not hurt” to “Gee what a crass b*tch.”

[LarkspurCO]

I think Huntertwo did the dog a favor by helping to teach it that sniffing around a horse’s hind end = pain. I realize the owner didn’t mean to let the dog go, but it happened and it became a hazard.

If your dog got loose and annoyed a horse, would you rather it be hit with a crop or kicked by the horse? Crops generally don’t result in broken ribs or internal injuries. (I wouldn’t use pepper spray unless a dog were attacking.)

As I stated earlier, my mare will kick the crap out of a dog sniffing around her tail. She taught my neighbor’s dog a valuable lesson recently by kicking him across the road. The dog hasn’t run up her ass since. The neighbor was appreciative, and he and I were both glad the dog wasn’t injured.

In my experience, the majority of dog owners don’t bother to train their dogs and expect other people to put up with their dogs’ unruly behavior.

If you allow your dogs to run loose and run up behind a horse, you are an irresponsible dog owner. Your dog does not deserve to be kicked by my horse. Your dog deserves to be TRAINED.

[Kenike]

Even the best trained dog can have a moment of stupid, but that never means it’s okay for anyone, ESPECIALLY a stranger, to smack the hell out of it with a whip! Even with my dog in the wrong, that would’ve garnered something fierce from me. You’re lucky this dog owner was so restrained…and embarrassed!

I feel for the OP, but accidents on the trail do happen. I hate retractable leashes, but a lot of dog owners love them. Was the velcro a stupid idea? Maybe. Maybe not. A lot of people velcro their dog to themselves while hiking. There’s a reason for it. If the owner runs into trouble, the dog can easily be released. If the dog falls, the owner doesn’t go with them. If another animal attacks, you’re not still attached to the dog. You get the picture.

And it also has to be asked how you know this was something the owner thought would happen. A lot of dogs bark at horses on the trails without making any movement to give chase. This may have been an absolute first that the owner never saw coming.

Sometimes crap happens. I’m glad you’re okay, I’m glad your horse is okay, and I’m glad it all seems to have worked out. Maybe you can give the trail another try and have better results…it sounds like a trail that would a blast to ride, if only for the aircraft!

[wendy]

I’d like to comment further about the “dogs at large” laws. SO many people confuse “Dogs at large” laws with leash laws. Laws about “dogs at large” are everywhere, frequently state-wide. They are NOT leash laws. If you own a 100 acre farm, and own a dog, and make no provision to keep the dog on your property (no fence, no tether, no invisible fence, nothing) you are in violation of the “dogs at large” law. The law generally won’t come around and do anything unless your illegal dog makes a habit of wandering off your property and bothering other people/animals, but you are still being blatantly illegal.
Most states have laws against “dogs at large”, but most also only require for dog out in public is that the dog be under the owner’s reasonable control. So you at home with your dog wandering around unconfined on your farm are in violation of dog law, but the person you meet on a trail ride with an unleashed dog, the dog in sight of the owner, and the dog more or less trained to obey the owner, is very likely NOT in violation of any law. Many local areas such as townships etc. DO pass leash laws, things like the dog must be on a 6-foot lead or whatever when out in public. But these vary wildly from local area to local area, and ONLY apply to public lands. If you, say, habitually ride your horse across a wilderness preserve that is privately owned by some foundation there’s an almost zero chance that any “leash laws” apply to that area.
So I strongly recommend before you get up on your “high horse” about dog owners that you actually check the laws in your area.
And sorry, but beating a dog with a whip is NEVER acceptable unless the dog is actually attacking you or your horse. A dog sniffing at a horse’s leg is not an attack by any definition.

[Schune]

I’m curious as to where people are getting the idea that the OP smacked the dog because she was just angry that she fell off. I’ve reread her post and see nothing alluding to that.

If I see a strange dog sniffing my horse’s back legs, my goal is to get it away for the dog’s safety and for my horse’s safety.

[ADM7040]

[QUOTE=Schune;4833695]
I’m curious as to where people are getting the idea that the OP smacked the dog because she was just angry that she fell off. I’ve reread her post and see nothing alluding to that.

If I see a strange dog sniffing my horse’s back legs, my goal is to get it away for the dog’s safety and for my horse’s safety.[/QUOTE]

Yes, and I bet it is likely that you would start with a simple “shoo” or a “git” before you escalated all the way up to using your dressage whip to hit the dog “as hard as (you) could”.

[Huntertwo]

@Schune;4833695

I’m curious as to where people are getting the idea that the OP smacked the dog because she was just angry that she fell off. I’ve reread her post and see nothing alluding to that.

If I see a strange dog sniffing my horse’s back legs, my goal is to get it away for the dog’s safety and for my horse’s safety.

Thanks Schune,

Unfortunately because this is COTH and by the second page, people join in with the mob mentality and no longer read the original post.

Read post 124 - It is implied that I beat this dog repeatedly. I hit it once.

Did anyone once think if I didn’t get this dog away from my pony’s hind legs that the dog could have ran around my pony and entangled her legs with a fully extended cord from the retractable leash?

Of course not, this is COTH. People just type what they assume with no regard for the actual truth of the post. - Without asking for more facts.

Heck, I’ve been called an ass and juvenile when I said, yes, if it were to happened again, I would do the same.

I posted actual quotes from the CT leash law, yet of course, they pull up laws that were unrelated to my incident.

I really don’t care what people think of my split second decision making…

After all, these are the same people fighting over an Ostrich/Rhea thread… Hard to take them seriously.

[GallopingGrape]

Ditto Shune…

[Schune]

[QUOTE=ADM7040;4833787]
Yes, and I bet it is likely that you would start with a simple “shoo” or a “git” before you escalated all the way up to using your dressage whip to hit the dog “as hard as (you) could”.[/QUOTE]

Actually, if I had a crop or whip in my hand, I’d probably be more likely to growl and use said instrument in conjunction. And yes, that means swinging, blocking, or hitting.

[GoForAGallop]

[QUOTE=Huntertwo;4833799]

After all, these are the same people fighting over an Ostrich/Rhea thread… Hard to take them seriously.[/QUOTE]

Have no idea what you’re talking about, actually.

Personally, I find it hard to take a grown woman seriously who throws such a temper-tantrum over a DOG on a trail. Not a rabid raccoon/cow with baby/hot air balloon/people running around in brightly colored spandex fighting with pool noodles/any of the other billions of things that could occur on trails. A DOG. Which certainly aren’t rare.

[JLD]

[QUOTE=GoForAGallop;4833904]
people running around in brightly colored spandex fighting with pool noodles.[/QUOTE]:lol:

[GoForAGallop]

[QUOTE=JLD;4833954]
:lol:[/QUOTE]

Well hey, that’s something that I would spook at, so I wouldn’t blame my horse either!

[mp]

[QUOTE=Schune;4833695]
I’m curious as to where people are getting the idea that the OP smacked the dog because she was just angry that she fell off. I’ve reread her post and see nothing alluding to that.[/QUOTE]

Well … here’s my reasoning:

The post sounds like it was written by a peevish 12 y.o.
She refused the dog owner’s apology, thus reinforcing that she might have done it in a fit of pique
And she’s still pissed, because she makes silly assumptions about people who disagree with her and threatens to call the poleeece on people’s “arses” who think she overreacted.

Honestly, I don’t give a crap if she hit the dog or why. Yes, dog owner should keep control of dog. But why be such a turd to someone who makes a mistake and says “hey, I’m sorry”?

Especially if you’re so foolish that you don’t realize a one-eyed horse – even a trail broke one – is likely to turn (and often very quickly) to look at something. So you should be somewhat prepared for encounters on the trail.

THAT person has no business talking about the dumb mistakes other people make.

[JLD]

Got to say that the OP does make it sound as though she hit the dog because she was ticked off. Not to protect it from being kicked by her horse, not to teach it that horses can be dangerous, etc. Because she was ticked.
Now I’m not saying I would be the epitome of grace in this situation either but to be nasty to the woman after the OP had already hit her dog and not been ripped a new one by the owner and after her apology? That’s just a fit of pique…

[ThirdCharm]

Just out of curiosity, what IS considered an appropriate response to a large, strange, out-of-control dog that runs up to you and starts sniffing around your horse’s legs? Are you supposed to yell at it (when it is ignoring its OWNER)? Are you supposed to try to capture it, risking being mauled yourself?? At what point are you allowed to take more aggressive action? Do you have to wait until it actually sinks its teeth into your horse, inflicting a life or career-ending injury?

Jennifer

[JLD]

Personally I would judge the dog’s body language. I’m not saying you should ignore a dog who is snarling and nipping and generally scaring the pants off you. But sniffing? No, I don’t think that warrants a whack. Would you whack a dog that came up to you and sniffed at you?

I wasn’t there so I can’t say what the dog’s demeanor was but if the OP’s intent was to make sure the leash didn’t get caught up in her horses legs, it seems to me that it would have made more sense to grab said leash and contain both it and the dog.

And for the record, I had no idea boxers were ever considered “large breed” dogs. Maybe I’ve only ever met the runts!

[GoForAGallop]

[QUOTE=ThirdCharm;4834116]
Just out of curiosity, what IS considered an appropriate response to a large, strange, out-of-control dog that runs up to you and starts sniffing around your horse’s legs? Are you supposed to yell at it (when it is ignoring its OWNER)? Are you supposed to try to capture it, risking being mauled yourself?? At what point are you allowed to take more aggressive action? Do you have to wait until it actually sinks its teeth into your horse, inflicting a life or career-ending injury?

Jennifer[/QUOTE]

“Hey, aren’t you a cutie!! Lemme snag your leash so that I can give you back to mom!!” This is all assuming that I couldn’t stay on my spooking horse (:lol:) and fell off. If I were still on my horse I’d still be talking to the dog, and may or may not hop down and catch said doggie depending on specifics.

I’d take aggressive action if the dog was actually growling/had his hackles up/was showing any sort of aggression at all. Sniffing my horse is not aggression, it’s what dogs do.