yeah well, you know? the OP and her attitude would fit right in with the irritating riders on our local trails, and despite being a horse-rider myself if it ever comes up for a vote I’m voting to kick the horses off the trails. Which will probably be eagerly copied by every single other user of the trail, all of whom manage somehow to calmly pass each other without drama, insults, screaming, or whippings.
[QUOTE=ThirdCharm;4834116]
Just out of curiosity, what IS considered an appropriate response to a large, strange, out-of-control dog that runs up to you and starts sniffing around your horse’s legs? Are you supposed to yell at it (when it is ignoring its OWNER)? [/QUOTE]
I’ll just assume I stay mounted, OK? :lol:
To a friendly, but rambunctious one – Say “hey, doggie, what’s up?” and make sure my horse doesn’t step on it.
To one that looks like a herd dog about to let his herding instincts take over – Point my whip at him and say “don’t you dare.”
To one that’s really out of control, tell dog owner “your dog is about to die” because my horses know when a dog isn’t going to play nice and they are handy with their feet.
I have read most of the posts. 
Everyone has an opinion about what they would or would not do in the situation as either the OP or the lady with the run away dog.
The dog may not have meant any harm and been a big sweetie - but the OP could have ended up dead from being thrown or seriously injured. Whether she could ride out a rough spot or not is really irrelevant. The lady should have had good control of her large dogs - not all people or horses are “doggie” friendly. Even a friendly dog can inflict SERIOUS injury as I know from personal experience. My friend’s large (really huge dalmatian that was the size of a Great Dane) jumped up to play with my 5 yr old son and his toe nail hung in Devin’s ear and ripped it to shreds and caused a trip to the ER to sew it up. My BFF’s niece was jumped on by a boxer/pit mix that was about 6 months old and wanted to play. His toe nail hung in her cheek and ripped it open and took a plastic surgeon many hours and 100 fine stitches to put her cheek back together. Neither one of these dogs meant to hurt either child but both of them ended up in a lot of pain, stitches, cost a poop load of money and in the case of Emily, she ended up with a scar for life on her face. Who needs that?
My very good friend has a Great Dane that is a darling and he just LOVES me and I think he is terrific. But I am careful when I have my horses around him because he does want to herd them at times and has been know to nip horses…with people he is a big sweetie who wants to sit on your lap! My horse is semi ok with dogs most of the time but I have seen him try to kick the living daylights out of a dog that ran through the hot walker. If Red had connected with Maxwell he would have been killed him and Max wasn’t trying to do anything to Red. On the trail he seems ok but if one ran up behind him even playing I am not so sure he wouldn’t let him have it and my horse is a laid back sweetheart 99.9% of the time.
Everyone needs to be considerate of others on the trails and that includes joggers, photographers, equestrians, people with the fanoodlie thingies. Try not to scare the horses, hit the dogs, p!$$ off other people. Remember the old golden rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you. No one set of sport enthusiasts have any more rights to the trails than others so everybody play nice in the old sandbox. JMHO
not all people or horses are “doggie” friendly.
if you take your horse out on public trails I can say for certainty that you will encounter dogs, and stupid dog owners, and some of these dogs will bark at your horse, and some will run up behind your horse and sniff at its legs. If your horse spooks at dogs doing these things I strongly suggest you stay home.
It’s a nasty double standard most horse riders use: they expect dog owners to have full control over their beasts, and get out of their way, and take 100% responsibility for anything that goes wrong; yet they do not expect to have control over their beasts, make no effort to get out of the way, and always blame “them” for whatever goes wrong.
When dealing with other people’s animals the only rule that works is “I can prepare and control MY animal”.
I agree Wendy. Everyone should be prepared. I have not had a bad experience on trails with dogs/horses/people (knock on wood) and hope that I never do. My horse is an off the track QH and is so laid back and calm 99.9% of the time thank God!
I am uber careful because I did come off a horse a year and a half ago (not on the trails) and got seriously hurt and I don’t want to repeat the experience. I am afraid that if I came off again I might not ride again! :no:
Agreed. Add to that, it is my responsibility to stay on my horse no matter how hard it spooks or runs. And to treat others (this dog owner in this instance) as I would want to be treated if my horse had spun and dumped me earlier on the trail and taken off and scared this lady and dog.
I’ll admit I read this thread in the first place as I do walk my dogs on the trails and wanted to make sure that I wasn’t doing something that would cause a problem (I ride the trails also, but sans dogs). Other than the lady was using a bad leash choice, it sounds like just an unfortunate incident. I feel like rather than hitting the dog, which was just being a dog, staying calm even though I had landed on the ground and letting her know why those kinds of leashes are a bad idea whether it got detached or not would have been more helpful. And letting her know how badly I could have been hurt. So many people have no idea why flexis are such a bad idea other than in open fields by yourself.
[QUOTE=AlfalfaGirl;4835848]
I am afraid that if I came off again I might not ride again! :no:[/QUOTE]
This comment struck me as really odd! No offense intended. If you are that afraid that you might come off and can’t ride, Why do you ride!?!
Riding is a huge risk. We take that risk every time we put our foot in the stirrup. Yes, we prepare, practice, and ride the right horse/trail to reduce this risk, but it is still a huge risk.
I am afraid to come off, but not so much that I am worried that I will never ride again!
Back to topic, No horse is 100%. No dog is 100%. No person is 100%. We make mistakes. Our animals act according to their nature 100% but they are not always under our control!
I treat my horses the way I expect to treat all horses. I treat my dogs the same way. Whether they are my dog or not, if one were sniffing, the hind end of my mare as indicated by OP, I would do what is necessary to get dog to remove itself from hindend. A shoo, a Git, or a swat with a whip is much better than a kick by my less than upclose and personal not dog friendly mare. She is fine with them on trail. If they get too close to her, she will charge, strike and kick. That is her nature as is swatting one if necessary is mine.
I try to use my best judgement at all times, but I am human. I am going to make mistakes. It is easy to sit here and tell someone what they should or shouldn’t do from behind this computer screen.
Given the situation I can’t and won’t fault her for swatting the dog. If it had been my mare the dog was behind, my mare would have take care of dog for me!
Which is better, Oops, I am sorry that I hit your dog with my whip. or, Oops, I am sorry that Fido is dead because my mare kicked your dog!?!
[QUOTE=mustangtrailrider;4835896]
T
Given the situation I can’t and won’t fault her for swatting the dog. If it had been my mare the dog was behind, my mare would have take care of dog for me!
Which is better, Oops, I am sorry that I hit your dog with my whip. or, Oops, I am sorry that Fido is dead because my mare kicked your dog!?![/QUOTE]
I think the TRUE issue, for me at least, is not that the OP disciplined the dog (which was too harshly, in my opinion) but that the OP did not THEN say “Ooops, sorry, just didn’t want Fido to get hurt!” as you suggested.
Instead she smacked the dog, glared at and was very rude to the owner, and then came on here to post her huffy little post.
Mustang,
LOL Just a fear of mine I guess. I am working to address my own fears. I grew up with horses and had them until I was 24. I used to be a pretty fearless rider and very confident of my skills. I hadn’t really rode in 26 years (unless you count a trail ride on vacation following other vacationers!) and I wanted a horse again as my kids were finally grown. I went to try a horse 5 hours from home supposedly trained, had done western pleasure. I spoke even to the vet tech where he treated and nothing but good reports. Spirited yes, crazy didn’t enter until I walked him down the arena and turned. There was a tree in the middle (which I thought was crazy) and he tried to scrape me off and then took off bucking and running bit clenched in his teeth. I came off at the end of the arena. Long and short, my leg was badly injured and the drs were shocked it wasn’t shattered in 4 places. I ended up with a severe skin infection, huge hematoma on the side with nerve damage. My leg is still numb on that side, still tender in places and it is still discolored like the bruise is still there even though it has been a year and a half. UGH. I bought a horse 2 months after that though. He is gentle but needs hours and miles. I am 51 years old and not too excited about coming off of my 15.3 hh gelding. Until I do get my own fears under control I don’t want to come off!!
I am going to start taking dressage lessons next week to help me master my fear. I do ride with people who are very experienced and we have encountered all kinds of stuff. My horses is an off the track and he gets a little excited at the mules and music at trail rides - I think he thinks its the starting gate. I do know that his breeder said he didn’t like dogs when he was sold to the lady I bought him from. Red seems ok with them as long as he isn’t on the hot walker!!
What would be the result, legally, if your horse did kick and kill a dog who’d broken loose from its owner and was sniffing the back legs of your horse? Could you be held liable in some way?
I’m not a lawyer but I would imagine it would be tough nookie. Especially if there is a leash law. Animals running loose is never a good thing and you are generally liable for damages that your animal causes. I know that if your livestock is out and someone hits and kills it you are liable for their damages to themselves and vehicle.
We never let our GSD run around loose but she would sometimes get out - she was pretty darn smart and could open a chain link gate! She was NEVER a bother to people but Betsy had no such qualms in attacking other dogs that were near her property. She was serious about protecting her territory! We had to put locks on the gates to keep her in when she was younger.
I have dogs, and horses.
I breed dogs and horses.
I train dogs and horses (and compete and do film work with both).
I frequent dog and horse forums.
I can see both sides. BUT I side more with the OP.
Why hold her to a higher standard? Her horse isn’t allowed to bat an eye at a charging predator, but we don’t expect the dog owner to have a good recall? Its easier to have a good recall than a horse that never spooks at anything ever.
My horses are used to dogs. The JRTs run underfoot all the time. The whippets wiz around like crazy things, and the BC barks and stares at them. My horses have hunted and are never fazed by the hounds. But I still am not sure at what they would do with a dog with a flexi charging at them.
I too would have hit the dog. Dogs don’t have hands, when they find something interesting they use their mouths on it. I have fostered enough dogs from rescues to see innocent sniffing turn into a quick bite and jump back (or even a lick). I doubt my horse’s would kick, however I would much rather sting the dog (no damage) vs wait to see if my horse is sufficiently weirded out to nail the dog, and potentially killing someones dog.
We trainers/competitors in the dog world hate flexis as much as the people in the horse world. They are known to be dangerous and unreliable. And they tend to teach dogs bad habits (constant leash pressure for one). They are not a good plan for walking a less than impeccably trained dog.
Oh and a personal story. I was chilling with my horse when I was much younger at the boarding stable when a stray large dog showed up. Was very friendly and didn’t seem to be interested in the horses. So he hung out whilst I rode in the arena. My horse didn’t care as the stable had a dog. We were walking out at the end on a loose rein and the dog came over and walked beside us. Out of no where this dog leapt up and grabbed her nose, she then reared up and tried to strike his head off. Luckily other than some punctures no one was hurt. He was fine again after that. Point being that dogs and horses are not robots they will at times react to things in ways you can’t predict.
Wow. You know SO LITTLE about dogs. :no:
Since you’re such a canine expert, I trust you have studied Patricia McConnell’s books and materials to the n’th degree. Maybe you can recite back to us some of the situations SHE has been in (a professional dog trainer and animal behaviorist) where dogs attacked her aggressively with the only warning sign being a tiny twitch of the lip or glint in the eye.
You surely know that she says the most dangerous dogs aren’t those with hackles up and growling. Those are generally the posers. The really really dangerous dogs are the ones that are stoic and resolved and quiet.
What about the 2 Presa Canarios that attacked and killed a woman in their apartment building with no warning. Just ripped the leashes away from the owner and jumped her as if she were a 6 pound rabbit. When they were done with her, only the soles of her feet were recognizable.
I’ll be darned if I’m going to stand by and say “good doggie lets go back and find your mommie” to a large, powerful breed dog that has just torn the leash away from it’s owner and charged at my horse. And I’m a dog person! Have been my whole life. I love dogs and study them as much as I do horses. I read dog forums. I have a library of dog training and care manuals.
But the fact is - dogs are predators. And you just DON’T KNOW that dog’s intentions. You don’t know if he is capable of attacking without putting on an agressive display first.
I am ashamed to admit this but when we first got our Weimaraner (a really severe abuse case), she nipped a guy on the back of the thigh with absolutely NO warning. He was a friend of my hubby’s and had been at our house all day. The dog had been well acquainted with him. We were sitting on the couch watching a movie and eating pizza, the dog was lying on the floor in front of hubby’s friend. The guy stood up off the couch, stepped over the dog, and without any warning at all, she leapt straight up and grabbed him on the back of the leg. It was only a pinch but it scared the &*$% out of me. There was no warning but it was a fear bite. It was a strange person doing something that she thought was threatening (stepping over her).
So how would you know that the boxer wouldn’t reactively bite or snap when you just reached over and grabbed his leash??? That’s not a chance I would take.
Truth is, he was probably the sweetest little munchkin honey in the whole world - but in the heat of the moment - YOU DON’T KNOW.
Diane Whippel’s family had told about incidents before where those 2 dogs got loose from their owner and charged at her, and she was afraid of them. The owner thought nothing of it - ohhhh geeze, they’re just being DOGS! Until the day they killed her.
You don’t take chances with strange, powerful breed dogs tearing loose from their owner and running at you. If I had the opportunity to use a dressage whip as some sort of warning to the dog, I most certainly would. And I would fully expect someone else to do the same to my dogs.
[QUOTE=Auventera Two;4836437]
Wow. You know SO LITTLE about dogs. :no: [/QUOTE]
Well bless your heart, pumpkin! Just cause I haven’t read the same books about dogs that you have doesn’t mean I don’t know a thing about them. But you go ahead and keep thinking that just because someone doesn’t scream in terror at the thought of a happy bouncing Boxer that means that they’re idiots…
I like to think that people aren’t bringing such killers out onto public trails. That may just be me thinking the best of people and animals, but find me one case, please, where someone was viciously attacked and injured by a dog on a trail?
You keep referring to the Boxer as a “large breed dog.” Oh doggie expert, surely you know that they are not considered a large breed, and usually barely break 50lbs?
[QUOTE=Auventera Two;4836437]
So how would you know that the boxer wouldn’t reactively bite or snap when you just reached over and grabbed his leash??? That’s not a chance I would take.
.[/QUOTE]
I don’t recall saying that I’d reach out and grab the dogs collar. But there’s no reason I can’t speak some friendly words to it, and pick up the leash if dog responds in equally friendly actions. Maybe I’d even call over to the owner “Hey, does the pup bite?” My FIRST RESPONSE would not be smacking the dog as “hard as I could” with a dressage whip, that’s for darn sure.
Gallop,
Were you there?? How EXACTLY do you know what I did and did not say?
And just how do you know I was “very rude to the owner” as you said.
How did you know that I did not say “Oops, sorry, just didn’t want Fido to get hurt”
Gallop,
Give it up already. You’re making an ass out of yourself. :rolleyes:
Honey, you are losing it…as I said, give it up already. You’re becoming unraveled…
None of that is considered polite–at least not in my house! Perhaps you were raised differently, though.
And I can only assume, since you neglected to contribute the fact, anywhere on this thread, that you DIDN’T say “Oops, sorry! Just protecting the dog!” It seems that if you’d said something like that, you would have mentioned it, but excuse me if that’s not the case.
I’m not the one making an ass outta myself, sorry.
I don’t recall saying a thing about “screaming in terror.” I did however say it’s perfectly acceptable to defend yourself against a loose dog if you feel it is threatening you or your property.
I like to think that people aren’t bringing such killers out onto public trails. That may just be me thinking the best of people and animals, but find me one case, please, where someone was viciously attacked and injured by a dog on a trail?
Yeah, I’d like to think that too. But the world is a crazy place and you JUST DON’T KNOW, do you?
You keep referring to the Boxer as a “large breed dog.” Oh doggie expert, surely you know that they are not considered a large breed, and usually barely break 50lbs?
The Boxer is classified as a medium sized dog by the AKC. However, the dog might have been 35 pounds, or he might have been 80. Bloodlines, and individual dogs within certain bloodlines might vary a great deal from the standard. The Boxers I have been acquainted with have been around 70 lbs. which to “me” is a large dog. Besides - doesn’t matter, a 15 pound dog charging the heels of a horse can cause damage if teeth sink into tendons, or hoof contacts skull. 
Edited to add: Just checked the breed listing at AKC. It says that the standard for adult males is 23-25 inches, and females are 21 1/2 to 23 1/2 inches. My beagle/walker hound cross is 21 inches and weighs 57 pounds. And trust me, he is NOT obese. So I find it hard to believe that most Boxers barely make 50 lbs. Maybe I’m wrong, and if so, I will stand corrected, but it doesn’t sound right to me. My Weimaraner female is 24 inches tall and weighs 76 last she was checked. She’s a lot finer and daintier than the Boxers I have seen. But I’m sure there are many small Boxers who may only be 50 lbs. but to say that most of them are like that does seem a bit strange to me.
I don’t recall saying that I’d reach out and grab the dogs collar. But there’s no reason I can’t speak some friendly words to it, and pick up the leash if dog responds in equally friendly actions. Maybe I’d even call over to the owner “Hey, does the pup bite?” My FIRST RESPONSE would not be smacking the dog as “hard as I could” with a dressage whip, that’s for darn sure.
And that’s fine. You’re entitled to do as you see fit, should you find yourself in such a situation. That is your right and I would respect any decision you made, should it be me and my dogs that you run into out on the trail. But to call the OP names and personally attack her because she defended her horse in a situation she felt was threatening is absolutely silly. It may not be what YOU would do, but it is what SHE did. And she has a right to do as she sees fit in such a situation.
I never ask a person if a dog bites, because ANY dog can bite at ANY time without ANY provocation, warning, or tendency. I don’t care if the dog has never bitten in 15 years. He is still capable given the right stimuli. I always assume that every horse has the ability to buck me off and every dog has the ability to bite my hand. They are animals and animals sometimes do things without our permission.
Oh, now it is only you can "assume".
Geez, it seemed like a fact on your other post.:rolleyes:
And yes, you are embarrassing yourself with all your accusations, and rude posts.
[QUOTE=Huntertwo;4836521]
Oh, now it is only you can "assume".
Geez, it seemed like a fact on your other post.:rolleyes:
And yes, you are embarrassing yourself with all your accusations, and rude posts.[/QUOTE]
Well, it’s a perfectly reasonable assumption to make. DID you say “Oops, sorry, didn’t want Fido to get kicked!”? No? Didn’t think so.
What accusations have I made? Here are the ones I remember:
- That you over-reacted. Yup, still stand by that one.
- That a dog should be no big deal for a good trail horse? Yup, gotta stand by that one too.
- That you were rude to the dog walker. Mmhmm, gotta stand by this one as well.
Am I missing any others?
YOU, on the other hand, said that just because I expect my horse to not over react to something so common as a dog on the trail, that he must be beaten and cower in fear at the sight of me. I can drag up the direct quote for you if you’d like, but it’s somewhere on the first or second page.
BTW, you still have a standing invite up to my property to see my bruised and bloody trail horse. Just PM me for my address, I’m a state away from you and two minutes from a 91 exit.
As for rude? Well, perhaps, I call things how I see it occasionally. Is there one particular post that got your hackles up, especially? Feel free to quote it, and I’ll consider rephrasing it to something more politically correct.
BTW, out of curiousity…is there a reason you’re attacking me specifically, when almost everyone else on this thread agrees with me?
