Oh, really? I better run up to my coworker’s office first thing in the morning, then, and tell her to discontinue her grad student’s multi-year alfalfa grazing study before all the cattle drop dead…:rolleyes:
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You’d be surprised. When it comes to digestive physiology, horses are actually much more similar to ruminants than to monogastrics (humans, pigs, etc.). There are some substantial differences, obviously, but not as many as most people would guess.
If I did not manage my pastures, they’d only have stiltgrass and buttercups to eat.
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Re pastures, what is “natural” in TX won’t be “natural” in ME or MN or FL or TN. What is “natural” varies widely by geography, topography, and climate.
If you can replicate the short grass steppes of the Old World then you’ve got something. If you live in Eastern Hungary or similar parts that would not be so hard. But otherwise you have to expend assets to manage your pasture to produce what you want your horse to eat. That means periodic applications of 2,4,D or glyphosate or other materials (and some time burning diesel in your tractor and bush hog) that will knock down the undesired vegetation and give the best chance to the desired vegetation.
And then whether or not you’re successful with the horse depends on the discipline in which you compete.* If you’re training for the Tevis you’ll have a different optimal program than if you’re running barrels (even though both activities are “races”). So, again, we come back to the Golden Rule of Equine Husbandry: You give the horse what it needs, when it needs it, and in appropriate quantity and quality. The is the ONLY truly universal rule of horse keeping. The Devil, as in so many things, is in the details! 
G.
*And in this sense the Pasture Puff Derby is as important and relevant as the KY Derby.
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“well-managed” fields - which for grazing is almost always all grass - wouldn’t have RoundUp used anyway, other than spot-work, because it would kill all the grass. There is no RUR grass, only alfalfa (which is why anyone can claim that a alfalfa/grass mix has had no glyphosate used on it).
Proper management is about appropriate pH and fertilization, as well as mowing. Most pastures are not remotely big enough to sustain any meaningful level of herbs or other potentially beneficial non-grass plants.
But even then, don’t think that this means the field is properly balanced in nutrients, or has enough of everything. And it doesn’t mean the horse needs to be in intense work to need appropriate nutritional supplementation for optimal health. Let a horse eat for enough years on a low calcium, high iron/low copper pasture, and see what happens in terms of coat health at the very least, let alone potential issue with bones and feet. You can’t free-choice them for those things, they won’t eat them, or won’t eat enough. This is a nutritional deal, not just about calories.
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Concur that there must be balance and that my Big Three Variables will certainly be important in any decisions. Do not concur that “optimal health” is a single value. It’s relative to the Big Three in terms of what needs to considered.
G.
Well at that point there’s nothing to graze on, so… 
I do not understand the above statement.
I’m not sure which part you don’t understand. Managing pasture is about good soil pH, appropriate nutrients, and mowing to keep grasses from going to seed (which slows or stops growth), to knock down the toilets areas the horses won’t eat, and to keep any weeds from going to seed. There’s more, like stocking rate, height of grass before removing horses, etc.
NancyM said
horses live best on a mixture of grasses and herbs, what occurs “naturally” in a well managed field.
Any herbs or wildflowers that a horse finds tasty enough, is not going to be able to live long enough, in enough quantity, in the size pasture that most horses are in, for them to be of any value. If they are tasty, the horses will find them and eat them all to the point they can’t return in most cases. They’d be available for a day or to, in small quantities, where in the wild they might be available in small quantities (or maybe larger) over as many days as the season is for that plant if it’s spread over a wide enough area the horse find them several times a week.
People like to talk about having an “herb garden” for their horses, stocked with all sorts of allegedly beneficial herbs and flowers and other kinds of plants. In theory it would be awesome, but it’s just not practical for, well, almost everyone, for a lot of reasons
Concur that there must be balance and that my Big Three Variables will certainly be important in any decisions. Do not concur that “optimal health” is a single value. It’s relative to the Big Three in terms of what needs to considered.
G.
I never said “optimal health” was a single value It clearly can’t be, if the value for X nutrient in the NRC guide isn’t enough for some horses.
On the related topic of obesity, clearly most horses don’t go metabolic at let’s say BSC of 6/10. Or even 7/10.
But how many horses could go 9/10 and not eventually get some metabolic problems?
And once horse is that obese and their insulin response is compromised, how do you get them to lose weight and will they ever have a normal relationship to food again even if you got them down to 4/10?
Well, then, we agree.
G.
There are weed killers that can be sprayed as pre-emergent that don’t kill all the grass.
Interesting question Scribbler. My only experience with that would be ponies and the answer is no! But that’s ponies, not horses. 
My current conundrum is with the opposite spectrum - horses that have been starved, are now at a normal weight, but continue to carry on as tho they’ll never see a meal again.
In humans, exercise is usually a very key factor in insulin response, so I would “assume” it would be for horses also.
I could only think that one would always have to be on top of the horses’ weight, for the rest of it’s life.
I’m sure there’s a biological reason for this, but we have/had 2 cats who were the same. The first one, we found in a terribly thin state - out in the woods, declawed on all 4 
For the 4-5 years we had her before cancer took her, she was always, always on the lookout for food.
The 2nd, we’ve had since she was a tiny kitten, so never wanted for food. Last Spring she disappeared for 2 weeks, found her finally in a neighbor’s shed (long story), and she was only 6lb and should have been 8-8.5. It didn’t take long to get her weight up, but since then she has been extra focused on food
In humans, exercise is usually a very key factor in insulin response, so I would “assume” it would be for horses also.
For sure, and the research is out there showing that
I could only think that one would always have to be on top of the horses’ weight, for the rest of it’s life.
Leptin-resistance is a real thing, unfortunately 
Before one goes crazy with the ‘pre-emergent’ herbicides… most work by inhibiting seed germination… all seed germination… seeds you sow, seeds your weeds sow
Most pre-emergents must also be watered into the soil within a short period of time after applying.
As always, read the label for appropriate application and safety precautions
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Of course you don’t just spray or spread anything out there, you have to identify what you are trying to prevent (ie japanese stiltgrass) and apply the correct product at the correct time in the correct manner. Doesn’t really need to be said to most people on this board imho. And most stuff has already emerged by now.
It is shocking how few animal owners can accurately judge an animals condition. Even with training they just seem to lack the ability to SEE it .
Yep. You get accustomed to seeing something, years’ worth of a lot of bodies, and your brain wants to see what it knows. I just don’t get it when the body scoring system is pretty darn objective, pictures and all
