I have very very good hay. Tested and all that jazz.
Winter is coming and workload ought to be increasing in the office and I thought I could streamline the whole feeding process of the young ones by using protein mineral blocks.
Otherwise, I will stick to a ration balancer, but it involves more time each day that would be better spent handling or training the beats IMO… :winkgrin:
Obviously, as long as it isn’t creating other problems.
Does anyone else use protein blocks?
I had no idea that such a thing even existed so I can’t give you an intelligent answer to that question! I keep an equimin block in the stall with my broodies/foals but also feed a ration balancer. I will be interested to hear the answers you get.
They exist, but there’s no way you can regulate the intake, and might not even know who is getting what unless each horse is limited to 1 block and you weigh it every day 
What exactly is in the one you would like to use? How much lysine? Lysine is really what you would be concerned with, as crude protein is very rarely an issue.
Unless the horse needs just a little lysine, and the block is tasty enough but not too much, without significant salt, I wouldn’t use them.
I don’t know either, but as I was at the feed store the other day, I noticed they sold half barrels of protein mineral blocks for cows. This is what I have seen in the fields that the cows were licking on. I have also seen these big barrels with rollers on the top that go down into what looks and smells like molasses that the cows lick.
Why wouldn’t this be something you could give to horses like free salt? Wouldn’t it be the same thing where they would go for a lick if they needed it?
Ive used Nature’s Essentials® Free Balance® 12:12 Supplement block in the summer when the grass was rich enough they weren’t touching hay and sure the heck didn’t need any grain. They were fine, nibbled on it waiting their turn at water and no one really over did it. I would think in the winter if your hay is high enough quality there wouldn’t be a problem.
Most cow protein blocks are molasses based. I wouldn’t use that as it would have high glycemic reaction, one of the main culprits of OCD.
As for mineral supply, I am not sure that most solid blocks have the availability that is required by a young horse. Loose mineral would be a better bet, IMO.
Like this product?
http://www.agribrands.ca/Documents/Equine/Fact%20Sheets/Horse%20Sup-R-Block.pdf
I would think in the winter if your hay is high enough quality there wouldn’t be a problem.
Hay in Canada is always short of something. It constantly losses nutritional value the longer it sits and we have 8 months of sitting.
We use a lot of them at our place in Australia. The soils are very old and are leached of a lot of minerals.
We put 20kg mineralised stock licks suited to horses in the paddocks and they go through them at varying rates dependent upon the weather and the quality of feed and hay.
I don’t know about molasses based but they do tend to have molasses in them, as do quite a few blocks made for horses. Those I wouldn’t feed (perhaps with an exception) because the molasses does make it too tempting. I don’t believe there is enough molasses in any of them to cause any issues with the sugar, at least for normal healthy horses.
I would think in the winter if your hay is high enough quality there wouldn’t be a problem.
I agree, rarely is the protein in hay a problem when it comes to crude protein - 20lb of 9% hay provides over 800gm CP, with an average 1100lb horse needing a bit under 799gm. But that hay may still be lacking in lysine, which really is the bigger issue most of the time.
As for mineral supply, I am not sure that most solid blocks have the availability that is required by a young horse. Loose mineral would be a better bet, IMO.
Very much agree. Blocks were designed for cows with rough tongues. Smooth-tongued horses aren’t efficient at licking these blocks, so if they really want it, they will bite/eat it and get too much, or just won’t bother much with it and won’t get enough
Like this product?
http://www.agribrands.ca/Documents/Equine/Fact%20Sheets/Horse%20Sup-R-Block.pdf
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=5113
It doesn’t list lysine, which as mentioned, is going to nearly always be the bigger deal over simply CP. Protein is 18%. Recommended intake is 1.1-2.2lb per horse. That’s between 90 and 180gm of CP. IF you can get your horse to eat that much of it a day, most days, and IF your hay is not providing enough CP, then this might work 2 very big If’s
Hay loses very, very little nutritional value over time, even a couple of years. Katy at www.safergrass.org had an article listed on this showing the testing done over a year’s time period (maybe more?) showing negligible decline, though I can’t find it atm.
All hay is potentially lacking in something at any given time, most hays are lacking in something all the time. Protein is not typically one of them, though I have seen some analyses that were in the 4% protein range :eek: Minerals are much more likely to be an issue, but that shouldn’t be taken to mean you rarely have to worry about the protein
All that said, we need to be clear on what is being asked. “protein mineral block” and “if it doesnt’ work I’ll just use a ration balancer” could mean different things. I took this to mean a protein block, since “protein mineral block” isn’t a typical combination. Some blocks are largely protein blocks (ie the one linked, at 18% and a fairly high recommended intake), most are trace mineral blocks (is the 12:12). I always have free choice loose minerals out, but they are pretty specific. I also have a free choice loose trace mineral product that is really a salt with a few trace minerals. Salt is one thing that should always be available at some point. I have found that some horses will self-serve a few minerals. I have out 2:1 and 1:1 ca/phos products, and it’s very clear which is preferred at what time of year. For example, the 1:1 is a clear winner when I have too much clover in the pasture.
It does contain molasses to entice them to eat it; it contains 20% protein, no lysine content listed.
But doesn’t high quality hay provide generally a sufficient amount of nutrients?
At least, from my hay analysis, they are not short of much anything… Just need a little extra “umph”.
Hence my ideal of the protein pressed mineral blocks…
[QUOTE=JB;5880181]
All that said, we need to be clear on what is being asked. “protein mineral block” and “if it doesnt’ work I’ll just use a ration balancer” could mean different things. [/QUOTE]
I really meant protein mineral block. If folks had any experience with them and if the horses did indeed consume enough of it to be of use with youngsters.
It is a block meant for horses.
If it doesn’t work, as if, in the horses don’t typically consume enough of it, then I’ll go with a ration balancer, but that requires more time for feeding, which, as I said, is somewhat of a waste of precious time IF a block can do the job just as well!
What is the recommended intake amount? Is there a number you could call to try to get the lysine %?
But doesn’t high quality hay provide generally a sufficient amount of nutrients?
Yep High quality hay gives you enough of most things. It may still be low in this or that, but overall, good hay provides most of what most horses need from a nutritional stand point.
At least, from my hay analysis, they are not short of much anything… Just need a little extra “umph”.
What’s the protein and lysine %, and how much do you feed?
[QUOTE=EquusMagnificus;5880233]I really meant protein mineral block. If folks had any experience with them and if the horses did indeed consume enough of it to be of use with youngsters.
It is a block meant for horses.
If it doesn’t work, as if, in the horses don’t typically consume enough of it, then I’ll go with a ration balancer, but that requires more time for feeding, which, as I said, is somewhat of a waste of precious time IF a block can do the job just as well![/QUOTE]
I think it all hinges on the protein and lysine content of the hay, and whether the intake requirements of the block are small enough to reasonably expect each horse to eat their recommended amount on a regular basis.
I have both boarded at a barn that put these out and bought them (once) for my 3 horses. After I bought the one for my 3 guys, I remembered why I didn’t like them at the boarding barn…lol. My horses love them, but they just stand and eat, and only eat the block, until it’s gone. They don’t want to come in for their feed, they fight over whose turn it is to eat, they don’t graze, and they are covered in sticky stuff because they get it on their faces, then try and wipe it off on one of the others, etc. I would only do it again if the horses had restricted access to the blocks or buy the smaller ones as more of a treat type thing.
Just an FYI, my feed people told me that it’s fine for the cows to eat the horse blocks, but not fine for the horses to eat the cow blocks unless you make sure it doesn’t contain Urea.
The block I bought was something similar to this but not this brand and was made for horses specifically. http://www.tractorsupply.com/livestock/livestock-salts-minerals-milk/livestock-protein-minerals/general-purpose-protein-tub-2512778
[QUOTE=JB;5880273]
What is the recommended intake amount? Is there a number you could call to try to get the lysine %?
Yep High quality hay gives you enough of most things. It may still be low in this or that, but overall, good hay provides most of what most horses need from a nutritional stand point.
What’s the protein and lysine %, and how much do you feed?
I think it all hinges on the protein and lysine content of the hay, and whether the intake requirements of the block are small enough to reasonably expect each horse to eat their recommended amount on a regular basis.[/QUOTE]
I don’t have the lysine amount with me, but I remember the hay being over 14 % protein. It is a a generous mix of timothy (1/3) and alfafa (2/3). I doubt it is lacking lysine…
Recommended intake is 0.5kg per head (adult though)… It seems huge.
At 14% protein, 2/3 alfalfa, unless you’re really restricting how much is fed, there is absolutely no protein or lysine deficiency I just cannot imagine that mix, with that protein, being lysine-deficient, not at all.
.5kg/horse is a lot, on par with the one linked above.
Hay loses very, very little nutritional value over time, even a couple of years. Katy at www.safergrass.org had an article listed on this showing the testing done over a year’s time period (maybe more?) showing negligible decline, though I can’t find it atm.
Could not find the article but I know from the cow farm thing that hay (especially kept outside) losses a bunch of nutrients. Most hay for cows is stored outside and that results in huge nutritional losses over one winter to the point that one year old hay around here is reduced in price significantly. If the hay is stored inside loss is reduced but not eliminated.
How and when the hay is put up also affects the nutrient loss when it is stored.
Hay begins to lose its nutritional value at the time of cutting and continues to lose nutritional value while in storage. The nutrients most affected by harvesting and storage are vitamins, with the protein and mineral content of hay being quite stable.
All green parts of growing plants are rich in carotene and, therefore, have a high vitamin A value. In fact, the degree of green color in a plant is a good index of vitamin content. Approximately 50% of the vitamin A may be lost from hay during the first 24 hours of the curing process. If the hay is subjected to rain or other weather damage, the vitamin losses are greater. The losses of vitamin content continue during storage with the rate of destruction determined by temperature, exposure to air and sunlight, and length of storage time.
Under average conditions where hay is stored in a barn, vitamin content of hay can be expected to decrease by approximately 7% per month. If hay is left outside without cover, the vitamin losses will be greater. Again, the color of hay is the best non-laboratory means of determining vitamin content. The greener the hay, the higher the vitamin level.
from
http://www.equinews.com/answer-exchange/equine-nutritionist-qa-hay-nutrient-loss
A loss of 20.2 percent of the original feeding value of the hay was lost during storage, but the original dry matter loss was only 7 percent. If the original dry matter loss during storage had been 15 percent (an average loss that occurred in several recent experiments), then the total feed nutrient loss would have been 27 percent. This is a high price to pay for outside storage, especially if hay is high quality
http://extension.missouri.edu/p/G4575#storage
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0377840186900453
[QUOTE=JB;5880472]
At 14% protein, 2/3 alfalfa, unless you’re really restricting how much is fed, there is absolutely no protein or lysine deficiency I just cannot imagine that mix, with that protein, being lysine-deficient, not at all.
.5kg/horse is a lot, on par with the one linked above.[/QUOTE]
It is fed free choice.
Racetrackreject, they get over the novelty of it rather quickly IME. 
And it is important that it is positionned sufficiently far from the water through or they will lick, rinse and repeat.
Well it looks like they’d be generally fine with just hay and that protein/mineral block would take care of the extra if need be… Yay!
Interesting stoicfish.
My hay grower keeps it all inside, out of sunlight.
[QUOTE=stoicfish;5879967]
Hay in Canada is always short of something. It constantly losses nutritional value the longer it sits and we have 8 months of sitting.[/QUOTE]
Especially Vitamin A. That’s the one that gets most readily lost in hay.
I’ve never heard of those blocks, so can’t answer your question really. I prefer youngsters to have good quality mixed hay with a bit of alfalfa so they get that valuable lysine. I’m in Alberta, so most of their feed needs to come from hay to get through the bitter cold and violent storms so depending on their body score they get either free choice round bale or doled out portions. Then on top of that, they get a weighed measured portion of their growth formula kibble and a balancer.
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