I have somewhat recently discovered that my dressage philosophy aligns closer to a French Classical method with some modern methods intermixed. I have no access to trainers in my area that abide to classical methods so I have always been curious about the nuances involved.
I also haven’t seen any information regarding Portugal/Spain based methods and I am curious if anyone might have some resources or wisdom to share in order to broaden my perspective.
Not a direct answer, but for your style, I believe Pierre Cousyn offers virtual lessons. Highly recommend!
I think Spain and Portugal trend heavily towards Iberian horses and you can see a lot in working equitation classes which are multiphase and include dressage. The horses are so different from WB.
For French style training you could look into the Phillipe Karl Legerete. There are a few coaches licensed in North America and some clinics
I was curious about working equitation. Looks to be an interesting sport. I’ve always admired how sensitive those horses appear to the aids and It looks like SO much fun. Wish we had it in my parts.
Would you mind elaborating on some of the differences between Iberian horses and WB training? From what I know, Iberian horses are more compact, easier to collect, but prone to going behind the vertical due to a shorter neck. Not sure about temperament.
Iberian horses, times past, were the Rolls Royce of war horses, exported across the world. They are still used to work cattle, show off in parades and used extensively for leisure riding. They are intelligent, sensitive, kind, spirited, trainable. Naturally, they are close coupled. I’ve ridden some where their four hoof prints are covered by an area about the diameter of a dinner plate! Gallop is an uncommon gait in Iberian horsemanship. The local terrain in Andalusia and southern Portugal is often hard and stoney so natural collection is a better option. This means extended gaits can be harder for Iberians in competitive Dressage. If you watch working equitation, or even better, a Portuguese rider working a bull, it is possible to see most of the dressage movements in use.
The European Warmbloods were bred to be army remounts in times of war and draft horses for farm work or pulling carriages at all other times. Sufficient horses for war was a Government priority for centuries. Quality stallions were kept by the State Stud farms while the farmers kept a few mares to breed and had geldings to work. Sport only became the focus of European WB breeding after WW2. These horses are reasonably intelligent but not necessarily the sharpest knife in the drawer because troopers had to be able to handle them, have a longer body shape designed to pull things, they are trainable and often people focused. How “hot” they are often depends on how much hot blood they have i.e. TB or Arab. Some “modern types” have a high percentage of blood and can gallop. Both France and Germany had large armies, often based on obligatory national service, with cavalry training to a high standard. This has shaped the modern discipline of Dressage. WB tend to find collection harder than extension and competitive Dressage tests are written to suit this type of animal. Iberians tend to start to shine at higher levels where increasing collection is the objective.
The TB, not in OPs question, has been tested for centuries for speed. They are supreme athletes, intelligent, brave and enduring, which is why they have been used to “improve” all the other breeds in Europe. Even in Spain, which treasures ancient bloodlines, uses TB and Arab stallions to obtain a more functional sport horse. The fastest growing section in British Dressage is TB dressage because we now understand how dressage should work and so can apply it to TBs and other “exotic” (German terminology) breeds.
Regarding PK : his system is really his own. It is not representative of the French Portuguese school. This is the opinion of Betinna Drummond, who I would say is one of the most qualified people to make such a statement.
Probably the most accessible information about the Spanish/ Portuguese training mthods is the late (did in the late 80s) Nuno Oliviera. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuno_Oliveira
He wrote many books, some of whch have been translated into English.
There is also “Legacy of Master Nuno Oliveira” by Stephanie Millham. Stephanie studied with Nuno in Portugal for 10 years, and was my (excellent) instructor for many years.
(edited) Nuno’s student, Dominique Barbier continues teaching his master’s approach. He has a farm, Barbier Farm, in California, and also gives many clinics.
I do not know if it is still in print (it is available as a used book), but “Effective Horsemanship” (1967) by Noel Jackson was my first introduction to the Portuguese approach, and I stll consult it today. Jackson was a career diplomat, who was permitted to attend the Officer Instructor’s Course at Mafra, the Portuguese Military Equitation School. The book addresses Dressage, 3-Day Eventing, Show Jumping and Polo. The text is detailed but easy to follow, and there are lots of good drawings and photographs.
For the French school, my favorite book (1967, and also out of print but available second hand) is “Equitation Learning and Teaching” by Jean Froissard.
For clarification, Dominique Barbier was a student of Nuno Oliveira, NOT his son. One of Nuno’s son was João Oliveira. He died of lung cancer in 2007.
Nuno had 2 other sons, Hugo and Gonçalo Oliveira.
Oversimplifying and exaggarating for effect.
The Iberian horses (Andalusians, Lusitanos, etc.) were, for centuries, used for working cattle, and for bull fighting. They excel at collection, and lateral movements, but tend to have more difficulty with extensions, and they do not have the “flamboyent” movement valued by modern dressage.
The European Warmbloods (with the possible exception of Trakheners) were, for centuries before the focus on “sport horses”, primarily used as harness horses, as well as cavalry. They, as a generalization, are much more likely to have ease with the extended gaits, but more difficulty with collection.
Thanks. I knew that. I have fixed it.
I enjoyed Miguel Tavora’s book very much… He passed away a few years ago but the book might interest the OP.
No problem. Dominique comes east several times a year to teach in NJ.
The Iberian horses basically come factory installed with lateral and collection. Especially Lusitanos who are bull fighting horses. They are even handier than a really good QH but with a much higher neck set and ability to coil up. I expect QH get their handiness from Spanish mustang blood in the American West.
It takes more work to develop an extended trot with Iberians but you could get piaffe and passage much sooner in the training process.
Modern WB are trotting machines with crazy extension and reach, and are often pushed to extend beyond the natural balance point of their trot. However they often need more work on collection, and even at top levels their canter pirouettes and piaffe have some obvious flaws
As WB grew to dominate dressage, the extended trot has become the gold standard crowd pleasing move, and has over time become a larger part of the points score. If you had an Iberian, your potential super power wouldn’t be extended trot, it would be piaffe passage canter pirouettes half pass etc.
Btw an Iberian x WB is a very nice cross, generally looks Iberian but with more reach in the gaits. However there can be a lot of difference within Andalusians as to gait.
Few WB could compete in working equitation, though you might find a hot QH that could do the obstacles part. But maybe not the dressage part
A Spanish national champion in Doma Vaquero a few years ago was a PRI i.e a TB
Yes I believe this is correct. I like to believe that’s why Spanish horses and QHs cross so well on each other and are decently sought after.
Yes, that’s a really nice cross!
My trainer teaches French classical and studied with him. Her barn has Lusitanos, Friesians, Andalusians. Her other trainer, Doina Fischer, comes to NJ from Spain twice a year for clinics. She’s a judge and trainer for WE.
When comparing the French method vs the “regular” aka German method, I find the French much easier on the horse and much more subtle for the rider.
Many many years ago my local library had Jackson’s Effective Horsemanship book and I would borrow it constantly. I knew nothing about dressage at that time but really enjoyed his diagrams explaining the rein aids. The last time I borrowed it a giant silverfish crawled out of it so I slammed the book, brought it back, and never took it out again.
Thanks everyone! Loving all these resources and I’m already learning from everyone. I’ll be sure to check out the reading recommendations.
A French school trainer in NCarolina is David Donnelly. You can find him on Facebook.
I have had a few Iberians in recent years. IMO a big difference not yet mentioned is that you cannot push an Iberian forward into balance-they will just fall on their forehand. This is a mistake some trainers make trying to get extensions.
For example, I had one who couldn’t find the flying change. Trainer brought him to a well known clinician who wanted her to push him forward across the diagonal and ask. We knew it wouldn’t work but clinician basicly said “do as I say and it will work”. It took about three weeks to undo the damage.
The WB and the Iberian are very different horses
DD wouldn’t be my choice for a number of reason from personal experience.
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