French drain/storm /rain control at barn

[ayrabz]

I know this will be hard to explain/envision. Barn is a small converted boat shed. so I am dealing with been there forever grade/etc.

there is a natural fall (gradual) that I did have a contractor/horse guy come…dig ditch…gravel in bottom, angled grade in front of run in that travels that opening and makes a turn to continue literal existing grade drop around back wall of barn. this is an angled tin roof that drops to the back so it creates a natural ‘ditch’ from roof run off, that this pvc french is covered /set in gravel. Our soil is like powder…soft dusty sand . My guess is this silt fills and packs the pvc french pipe. (there was no geotextile fabric used. guy said he did not feel it would make a difference.) anyway. its continually failing and he did come back and open and roterrooter the pipe clear, and re covered with gravel /bluestone, but its failed again over time. I’m going to contact another local guy recommended but can anyone share any suggestions to discuss with them? I’m dreading this day /night/into tomorrow of heavy rains.

[Simkie]

Adding geotex and or other solutions to keep the silt out of the drain seems like low hanging fruit, might as well try it?

Is it possible to do more work up slope to divert more water around the barn?

[clanter]

@ayrabz

(there was no geotextile fabric used. guy said he did not feel it would make a difference.)

well he was not correct in his opinion, as there are two version of geotextile: woven and nonwoven

The Nonwoven is what is to be used in OP application

The nonwoven fabric geotextile liner is used in a variety of environmental and civil applications in order to separate aggregates, filter materials and offer a dependable foundation beneath certain sections. Designed and engineered by expert IEC Covers technicians, it offers excellent levels of permeability to suit your needs. Our nonwoven geotextile liner is the perfect solution for separation, drainage, sediment control, cushioning and other construction and road repair projects.

https://www.ieccovers.com/geotextile-liner/#:~:text=A%20permeable%20geotextile%20liner%20is,large%2C%20uniform%20piece%20of%20material.

The woven is not that porous but “features excellent load capacities which means they are good for use in erosion control and reinforcement applications but not ideal for drainage projects”.

[ayrabz]

Simkie I’ll definitely be discussing that with him. Working up slope is unfortunately not going to be doable…fencing intercepts this and all grade is set as is barn/run in floor. But!!! I’m looking into flood barrier systems…*(never knew about these, but if they work and are reuseable I’m VERY interested. its only heavy rains and quick rising ground water that flows right in…)

[ayrabz]

thanks clanter!!! informative!!

[clanter]

no problem as I was involved with some Corps of Engineers projects that required geotextile and the differences were highly noted as to which was to be used where in the bid spec book

[OzarksRider]

We have a sort of French drain around our barn, meaning it’s just a trench filled with rocks and no pipe. When we first installed it, we put erosion control blankets on the slopes to keep dirt from flowing into the trench, then overseeded the slopes with a combination of native grass/wildflowers. We also installed a gutter along the back of the barn roof to direct water to the lowest point of the drain where it will more easily run out. It’s been 3 years, and so far we haven’t had to do anything more to the area. No water at all in the barn. The wildflowers have established a strong root system to hold the soil, and all those flowers are very pretty.

[clanter]

@OzarksRider

We have a sort of French drain around our barn, meaning it’s just a trench filled with rocks and no pipe.

this is just what we did on the low side of our concrete wash rack area, this eliminated all mud for us (and gave me a place to put some of the rocks I had gather from the pastures)

[ayrabz]

I love the wildflower idea. my issue is this problem is at my run in width and opening and I have to divert heavy rain flow so it doesn’t come in my opening. thats the only time it happens. guttering would not do it, its ground surface water coming in due to grade also dropping at opening. its why I’m really excited to learn about the temporary reusable ‘lay across opening’ temporary blocking…they’re gel filled and only activate/puff up/ block with water activation. Feel so dumb I never knew about them!!! researching will commence to find product that will work best! example (lots out there so only used this one for an example) https://www.hammacher.com/product/50-water-activated-flood-barrier?cm_cat=ProductSEM&cm_pla=AdWordsPLA&source=PRODSEM&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIo5OaxPbr-AIVkbjICh0R0AgOEAQYDSABEgLBo_D_BwE

[starsandsun]

This is so cool! Please let me know how they work for you - but I couldn’t tell from the description whether they were reusable. If you could confirm, that would be so interesting. I’d order in a heartbeat.

[carman_liz]

Does the building have gutters…probably a silly question but my first thought and then my second is can they handle the runoff or should you just get larger gutters to help it out? Have you looked into geocell panels to help hold your ground soils in place? Lighthoof is stupid expensive, but the same stuff is sold by many other online companies.

[ayrabz]

starsandsun. these are stocked / available lots of places!!! from Lowes/HomeDepot/Walmart/Amazon. (why I was like DUH…never knew!) I used the link I did because it describes the product best but certainly not best prices. Seems there are lots of ‘barrier’ products out there, but like you, I"m liking the ones /systems that come in a storage big bucket, are reusable and you just roll em out along your ground water run in opening!

[ayrabz]

liz, hard to explain…but gutters are not needed due to roof slope. I get no roof run off, its all ground water. roof is slanted from (while facing the run in opening) left to right. run off goes behind barn straight into gravel ditch with the french drain in it. the soil retainer systems/etc would most likely be a loss of investment. its just barn base is on a grade that HEAVY rain fall slopes to and comes in. most all other times, no problem as our soil is pure loamy sand. when rain falls fast it has a natural flow coming at the opening. Its because the grade is what it is since I converted an old existing building to the little barn. no way to alter the grade, and we’ve done swales to help and the french drain, etc. I can literally watch a heavy storm rain slowly creep into run in, across those mats, and into my stalls and aisle .

[carman_liz]

Can you post pics? I bet we all would have more crazy workable ideas for you?

[ayrabz]

thanks! I have some pix but I’ll have to find em.

[eightpondfarm]

i would dig a swale several feet before building. AND i would raise the entrance of the building with what i dug when creating the swale.

[ayrabz]

thanks…I know it sounds ‘simple’ but its not. there is a grade left to right and a grade down into entrance. its not a lot of grade(s) but enough the ‘swales’ didnt handle a hard pouring '(think flash flooding kinda events only ) just like a faucet combo coming in…I have fencing crossing this area too and run in/barn base cannot be raised.