Friend faking service dog on plane

[csaper58]

[QUOTE=Horsegal984;8573536]
For starters, the DOJ is very specific that dogs trained for any bite work cannot be service dogs. For two, I have NO IDEA where csasper58 came up with the food intolerance issue, she made that up all on her own. In conversations with the handler/trainer of that dog they were very clear that the dogs are muzzled because they cannot be trusted not to bite in public.

Nobody is contesting that legitimate service dogs have the right to accompany their handlers, but none of those photos I shared are legitimate service dogs. We’re only discussing the plethora of fakes and ill behaved pets that are being allowed into the cabins more and more.[/QUOTE]

Please don’t accuse anyone else of making things up, it is impolite to assume, and then to assign a pronoun, to someone you have never met.

Sigh…you really can’t fix stupid. Particularly the all knowing, “I can pass judgement just from looking at the instagram photo…” type of stupid.

[Horsegal984]

[QUOTE=csaper58;8573811]
Please don’t accuse anyone else of making things up, it is impolite to assume, and then to assign a pronoun, to someone you have never met.

Sigh…you really can’t fix stupid. Particularly the all knowing, “I can pass judgement just from looking at the instagram photo…” type of stupid.[/QUOTE]

So, then how can you assume that the dog has EPI and that’s why it’s muzzled? I said that I have conversed with the trainers of this dog, and they said the reason it is muzzled is because it bites!

As far as the pronoun it’s just easier to pick one. Dear lord, why do people get so offended by that??

[Horsegal984]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8573809]
You’re right. The young woman that got raped by her classmate shouldn’t need support - the veteran that served three tours and watched his comrades blown to smithereens doesn’t need support. Heck, tortured/refugee survivors shouldn’t need anything either.[/QUOTE]

If they need help and support what they need is a service dog, there are service dogs for psychiatric disabilities like PTSD. They just have to be properly trained and have specific tasks that they are trained to do to help their handler, not just sit there and make them feel better. Otherwise, they can have ESAs, at home, which are commonly referred to as pets. They only need to be designated if they live in no pet housing.

[csaper58]

[QUOTE=Horsegal984;8573815]
So, then how can you assume that the dog has EPI and that’s why it’s muzzled? I said that I have conversed with the trainers of this dog, and they said the reason it is muzzled is because it bites!

As far as the pronoun it’s just easier to pick one. Dear lord, why do people get so offended by that??[/QUOTE]

Well, I don’t believe your claim of a conversation. Nothing personal, it just doesn’t ring true.

And see, here is a situation were one person is offended by something that another person thinks is no big deal.

I wonder if there is something to be learned from that, and applied to this discussion.

[Horsegal984]

[QUOTE=csaper58;8573831]
Well, I don’t believe your claim of a conversation. Nothing personal, it just doesn’t ring true.

And see, here is a situation were one person is offended by something that another person thinks is no big deal.

I wonder if there is something to be learned from that, and applied to this discussion.[/QUOTE]

But you’re not willing to back up your claim that you didn’t make up the EPI diagnosis? So please, that whole glass houses/stones thing? The dog was trained by Devine K9, who specialize in protection dogs and conversed with many people at SHOT show in Vegas about why their dogs are muzzled. Muzzled and wearing “Service Dog” labeled gear. Sorry I don’t have an audio recording to give you, but I feel I am at least attempting to back up what I’ve said.

You’ve said a dog in a muzzle wouldn’t be allowed on a flight, and that this dog has a medical reason for this dog to be wearing one, none of which you have been able to show any proof of either.

I’m going to quit entertaining this side trip about what could/couldn’t happen on flights, based on your third party experiences, and focus on the OPs topic of a person she knows is lying to get her dog on the plane.

OP- did you ever say anything to your “friend”?

[Raymundo]

The dog sitting in the bulkhead is a vey large dog. Perhaps everyone in that photo is traveling together and likes that dog, but what if they aren’t? When that dog lies down he will take up a lot of that legroom.

My brother travels a lot for business and was on a flight in coach where the middle passenger had a labrador ESA. Passenger was large so the dog didn’t have a lot of room in front of her seat. Brother was unable to sit with his legs straight and unable to put his tray table down to work on his laptop because of the dog. Flight was full so when he asked to be reseated he was denied. This is a guy who has his own labs at home and dogs sleep on his bed–he was not happy with a cross country daytime flight and no way to sit straight or work. He asked what the deal was and lady just said the dog made her feel more relaxed when flying.

[csaper58]

[QUOTE=Horsegal984;8573846]
But you’re not willing to back up your claim that you didn’t make up the EPI diagnosis? So please, that whole glass houses/stones thing? The dog was trained by Devine K9, who specialize in protection dogs and conversed with many people at SHOT show in Vegas about why their dogs are muzzled. Muzzled and wearing “Service Dog” labeled gear. Sorry I don’t have an audio recording to give you, but I feel I am at least attempting to back up what I’ve said.

You’ve said a dog in a muzzle wouldn’t be allowed on a flight, and that this dog has a medical reason for this dog to be wearing one, none of which you have been able to show any proof of either.

I’m going to quit entertaining this side trip about what could/couldn’t happen on flights, based on your third party experiences, and focus on the OPs topic of a person she knows is lying to get her dog on the plane.

OP- did you ever say anything to your “friend”?[/QUOTE]

Anyone can look at the instagram, find the web address, and the facebook. I am sure Devin K9 (don’t you even know his name?) spoke to people, I seriously doubt one of those people was you. I believe you are just culling material from the internet to enhance your posts.

I have NEVER said “a dog in a muzzle wouldn’t be allowed on a flight” or anything remotely similar. My posts are #31, #33, #35, #43,#45,#59, #62, and this one. Read for yourself then apologize for your error.

I simply asked “Wasn’t that the Mal…” in post #33. I made no claims to know the dog or the owner.

You are the one posting the third party experiences. Don’t hang your wash on my line.

On a plane, I would rather sit next to a giant, smelly dog, than one of those boorish people who’s life is a fictional construct of things done and said by others.

[Horsegal984]

I won’t apologize. I said that “you think that, until you’re sitting next to the aggressive Sharpei from the other thread or that GSD that somebody has that has to be muzzled”

You responded that “that would never happen,” so I found proof that a muzzled dog was in fact, allowed to board and fly on a commercial flight.

I don’t really care if you believe me or not, you obviously are just looking for things to try and pick apart. Maybe it’s because you’re one of the people who lies and cheats the system to bring Fluffykins everywhere. I really don’t know. But I’m not sure why else you’ve put so much time into trying to insist I’m wrong or lying.

[csaper58]

Once again you make the same mistake. You decided what it would benefit your point of view to have me say, then quote me as if I really said it. (post #31)

As everyone who reads that entire post will comprehend, at best you embellish, mostly, you flat out lie.

[csaper58]

[QUOTE=csaper58;8572489]
Two good friends and my cousin are flight staff. They have not encountered a problem.

If any dog behaved like you are describing, it would be cause immediate landing of the plane and a report would be filed with the NTSB. Those reports would be a matter of public record. They would also be all over the news.

Just because you can imagine something horrible happening, doesn’t mean it is happening.[/QUOTE]

This is the post that Horsegal984 is inventing quotes from.

note: The word ‘for’ should be inserted between ‘cause’ and ‘immediate’. For obvious reasons I will not edit the post.

[Anne_FS]

[QUOTE=Horsegal984;8573536]
For starters, the DOJ is very specific that dogs trained for any bite work cannot be service dogs.[/QUOTE]

Such a shame. The original Therapy Dogs were Schutzhund trained and titled GSD. Their owners are the ones who founded TDI: Therapy Dogs International. Best all around service dogs ever.

[My_Two_Cents]

If someone honestly needs a service animal on a plane, I’m fine with that. But I think there is a lot of fraud. If someone is caught “pretending” to need a service animal on a plane (or any other place) should get a hefty fine. I feel for the people that have allergies and are subject to misery because someone else was thoughtless and just trying to not pay for a flight for an animal. I believe people that are so inconsiderate have hit a new low. I don’t judge people with service dogs as I do not know what their dog is trained to do. Such as dogs that warn of a seizure or low blood sugar, etc. But really? Pretending to need one? SMH.

I didn’t know it was this easy. Sad.

http://www.today.com/pets/emotional-support-animals-are-making-flying-beastly-experts-say-t70756

[Bicoastal]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8573040]
people who have these untrained animals are ruining the accessibility of public venues for disabled people every time they bring their untrained animals out.[/QUOTE]

@enjoytheride;8573119

The fact is that people are taking advantage of the ESA being loosely written and enforced and this will cause the law to change and become much more strict, which will harm people who have a legitimate need to have their dog with them.

Bolded my biggest problems with my friend’s decision to take her pet onto a flight as a SD.

In our educated, savvy, and animal-focused COTH community, there is both correct and incorrect info being shared about service and emotional support animals. You can imagine the confusion of the airlines and their employees.

[rothmpp]

There are posters on this thread that seem to refuse to see the issue of the “service” dog. Everyone has seen “service” pets that have a vest tossed on them just so they can go everywhere with their owners. I have no issue with a legitimate service dog. But being able to purchase a service animal certificate online is a problem. I’d love to fly with my dog, but I won’t put him in cargo, he’s too big for under the seat, and I won’t lie about the service dog thing. I’d be happy to buy a seat for him, but that is not an option.

How about a national license for service animals? Your animal has to have a certification from a central registry. This registry requires your dog’s training to come from a licensed training organization. Then when you make your plane reservations you have to provide his license. Then your boarding pass is flagged with some code that gives your service animal access. No questions, no privacy issues.

We are required to provide some sort of identification that we are who we are and are eligible to fly. Why not your service animal?

[SonnysMom]

[QUOTE=rothmpp;8574300]
There are posters on this thread that seem to refuse to see the issue of the “service” dog. Everyone has seen “service” pets that have a vest tossed on them just so they can go everywhere with their owners. I have no issue with a legitimate service dog. But being able to purchase a service animal certificate online is a problem. I’d love to fly with my dog, but I won’t put him in cargo, he’s too big for under the seat, and I won’t lie about the service dog thing. I’d be happy to buy a seat for him, but that is not an option.

How about a national license for service animals? Your animal has to have a certification from a central registry. This registry requires your dog’s training to come from a licensed training organization. Then when you make your plane reservations you have to provide his license. Then your boarding pass is flagged with some code that gives your service animal access. No questions, no privacy issues.

We are required to provide some sort of identification that we are who we are and are eligible to fly. Why not your service animal?[/QUOTE]

A friend of mine has trained her own service dogs. She is in a wheelchair and the dogs are service dogs not emotional support dogs.
I don’t mind having an organization that tests self trained service dogs and certifies them similar to a Good Canine test. I don’t see a problem with having to have a license from a handful of certified vendors. To prevent fraudulent ones maybe the certified service dogs would then be in a website that the airline has access to, maybe with pictures of the dog. This way the airline can verify the certificate is valid.

[csaper58]

What if,

Instead of the existing, easily circumvented rules, all dogs who are able to pass the AKC Canine Good Citizen Test are welcome on a plane?

They would need some sort of passport, and it could be revoked for bad behavior.

Cats and other small animals would be in carriers under the seat.

Larger animals should be banned due to the danger of them becoming flying objects if turbulence is encountered.

[Horsegal984]

[QUOTE=Anne FS;8574116]
Such a shame. The original Therapy Dogs were Schutzhund trained and titled GSD. Their owners are the ones who founded TDI: Therapy Dogs International. Best all around service dogs ever.[/QUOTE]

Ohhhh, wait. If you’re talking about TDI dogs, therapy dogs that go to visit hospitals, etc, those can still be Schutzhund trained. That’s totally different from a service dog, which is like a seeing eye dog. (Using very basic example here). TDI actually won’t let a service dog be a therapy dog, they feel it’s too confusing for the dog to go from working for one person to working for many.

[dotneko]

[QUOTE=csaper58;8574510]
What if,

Instead of the existing, easily circumvented rules, all dogs who are able to pass the AKC Canine Good Citizen Test are welcome on a plane?

They would need some sort of passport, and it could be revoked for bad behavior.

Cats and other small animals would be in carriers under the seat.

Larger animals should be banned due to the danger of them becoming flying objects if turbulence is encountered.[/QUOTE]

Hell NO! I know someone whose pit bull has that ‘good citizen’ thing. The stink I would make if I was stuck for 4 hours next to it in cramped quarters would surely get me arrested.

[csaper58]

[QUOTE=dotneko;8574736]
Hell NO! I know someone whose pit bull has that ‘good citizen’ thing. The stink I would make if I was stuck for 4 hours next to it in cramped quarters would surely get me arrested.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm… Why? Do you think the dog was wrongly passed? Or is the CGC not a stringent enough test for airline travel?

Maybe an Airline Good Citizen Test? With a longer Down and Stay test, a Wobbly Platform test for turbulence, a Lightning and Thunder test.?

I think ‘Pets on Planes’ is here. I know many folks are use to planes (resteraunts, and hotels too) being ‘animal free’ zones, but times are changing.

[dotneko]

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