FT Kentucky Sales

[skydy]

Snaffle1987, When you are interested in a subject but have no real life experience with it, you can read about it and you can watch it, but sooner or later you will have to ask questions if you want to learn.

I know a fair amount about breeding because I have worked in breeding. The meaning of the phrase “the stallion stamps his get” is the same across all of horse breeding.

The breeder of TBs that I worked for, did not breed for the track and I have never worked at a racetrack.

I have watched the TB sales online for years, because I am fond of the TB breed and am very interested in breeding and bloodlines. I’ve read all of the documents on the sales websites. I study the catalogs and I look up stallions online and am familiar with their stud fees and to an extent, what their get have in common.
(I don’t live in Kentucky so I can’t pop in to see the stallions in person).

Research and reading has not made me an expert. It is helpful, and I am more educated than I used to be, but it doesn’t come close to providing a thorough education. I still have questions.

Since I have never attended the sales in person I can’t ask those questions of the people at the sales who know what they are doing.

Over the years LaurieB has been kind enough to answer my questions. She breeds her mares and races her homebreds and has been active in the sales for years. I’ve had the pleasure of watching some of her yearlings sell (always beautifully presented by the way).

Rather than nattering on about subjects that you obviously know nothing about, why don’t you read, and ask questions of people who are actually breeding and racing horses? There is a reason that education includes teachers as well as books.

In any horse related subject, experience is valuable and if you don’t have it first hand, the next best thing is to learn from the people who do. :yes:

[skydy]

Back to the sale… It seemed like a high percentage of RNAs. There were some lovely horses though!

[Pronzini]

@LaurieB

A video, like a photo, might whet someone’s appetite. It won’t make a sale. There are many things buyers look for that can’t be seen on a video.

Factor in the cost of a video–probably $1,000 or so to do right, on top of the other sales costs (5-10K for a modestly priced horse) and I can see why most sellers don’t bother, even in 2019.

The people who complain the loudest about the lack of vidoes are internet browsers, not actual buyers. And sellers are well aware of that too.

FWIW, the consignor that I’ve used hates marketing with videos and pictures. The real buyers will find your horse regardless of how well he looks in a video and a poor video knocks him off people’s list. It’s also bad if the video is the least bit misleading or the pictures are photoshopped because that turns buyers off. He thinks it’s an expense that doesn’t add much to the bottom line.

[Pronzini]

@skydy

Snaffle1987, When you are interested in a subject but have no real life experience with it, you can read about it and you can watch it, but sooner or later you will have to ask questions if you want to learn.

I know a fair amount about breeding because I have worked in breeding. The meaning of the phrase “the stallion stamps his get” is the same across all of horse breeding.

The breeder of TBs that I worked for, did not breed for the track and I have never worked at a racetrack.

I have watched the TB sales online for years, because I am fond of the TB breed and am very interested in breeding and bloodlines. I’ve read all of the documents on the sales websites. I study the catalogs and I look up stallions online and am familiar with their stud fees and to an extent, what their get have in common.
(I don’t live in Kentucky so I can’t pop in to see the stallions in person).

Research and reading has not made me an expert. It is helpful, and I am more educated than I used to be, but it doesn’t come close to providing a thorough education. I still have questions.

Since I have never attended the sales in person I can’t ask those questions of the people at the sales who know what they are doing.

Over the years LaurieB has been kind enough to answer my questions. She breeds her mares and races her homebreds and has been active in the sales for years. I’ve had the pleasure of watching some of her yearlings sell (always beautifully presented by the way).

Rather than nattering on about subjects that you obviously know nothing about, why don’t you read, and ask questions of people who are actually breeding and racing horses? There is a reason that education includes teachers as well as books.

In any horse related subject, experience is valuable and if you don’t have it first hand, the next best thing is to learn from the people who do. :yes:

Nice post. I think the people who learn are the ones humble enough to admit that they don’t know. Knowing what you don’t know is a kind of wisdom in itself.

In horses, I am an amateur around professionals and I’m very aware of it. Few weeks go by when I’m not asking questions to try to expand my knowledge. Even then, it’s a poor substitute for actually doing things. I wouldn’t dream of lecturing people who have spent 30 + years mastering their craft that I have seen better things in books or worse, that I have my own ideas. I spend 50 hours a week in an office doing something else. On what basis do I get to have my own ideas?

This forum is a tremendous opportunity to learn from people who have actual experience and generously offer it. I for one really appreciate it.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Pronzini, what you said in spades. Gotta be free to admit what you don’t know when you don’t know it. Takes some, IMO, humility to be comfortable with your lack of knowledge or experience but it happens… roll with it and learn

A totally agree… this forum is fortunate enough to have some very experienced people willing to share their experiences and knowledge and I very much appreciate it! I have learned so much from reading and digesting what was written.

For example. I totally get not bothering with videos for TB sales/auctions. If I’m a buyer, I want to see the horse or know that my rep that will be buying for me is seeing the horse with their very own eyes. So much can be “hidden” in how a horse is shown photographically or videographied (is this even a word? ).

Yeah, as a window shopper, the photos and videos are nice. If I’m dropping big bucks on a fancy horse, I wanna see it in person.

[dressagetraks]

I scrolled through the catalog from today (racing age) as well as tomorrow just out of curiosity during a break at work. Is it usual to have that many withdrawn from the sale beforehand? Their page sure looked marked up.

Can anybody just show up and bid? Not that I have the throwaway $$ now, but I’ve toyed in fantasy thoughts with the idea of going to a sale and picking out a TB. That, of course, is years down the road, but I just wondered how open the process is. Do you have to be a known name to them?

I remember one of Dick Francis’ books, admittedly fiction, but he did his research. The protagonist’s rich father, who barely knew which end of a horse was which and knew nobody in racing, decided totally spur of the moment to attend the big yearling sale that evening. He sat there watching most of the evening, then abruptly bid himself as last bid on a megaprice yearling. Startled the sale staff quite a bit. They accepted the bid, but he had multiple people tracking him down and wanting his name and signature almost immediately. They wanted to verify funds before releasing the colt, too. This being fiction, of course, the yearling turned into a 2-year-old stakes winner and was favored for the (English) Derby at 3 the next year when the book ended.

[skydy]

They do want your signature immediately. Scroll to sixteenth; http://www.fasigtipton.com/docs/conditionsofsale.pdf

[skydy]

@dressagetraks

I scrolled through the catalog from today (racing age) as well as tomorrow just out of curiosity during a break at work. Is it usual to have that many withdrawn from the sale beforehand? Their page sure looked marked up.

Can anybody just show up and bid? Not that I have the throwaway $$ now, but I’ve toyed in fantasy thoughts with the idea of going to a sale and picking out a TB. That, of course, is years down the road, but I just wondered how open the process is. Do you have to be a known name to them?

I remember one of Dick Francis’ books, admittedly fiction, but he did his research. The protagonist’s rich father, who barely knew which end of a horse was which and knew nobody in racing, decided totally spur of the moment to attend the big yearling sale that evening. He sat there watching most of the evening, then abruptly bid himself as last bid on a megaprice yearling. Startled the sale staff quite a bit. They accepted the bid, but he had multiple people tracking him down and wanting his name and signature almost immediately. They wanted to verify funds before releasing the colt, too. This being fiction, of course, the yearling turned into a 2-year-old stakes winner and was favored for the (English) Derby at 3 the next year when the book ended.

Dick Francis, though he wrote fiction, was a champion jump jockey (he rode some of Queen Elizabeth’s horses) and he knew his horse racing stuff.

He did make me laugh at times in his depiction of Americans. In many of his early books he had us all talking like wild west cowboys.

[On_the_Farm]

@snaffle1987

You don’t need to hire Thorostride to do your videos. Most of these horses are sold through agents, often large outfits, who prep them for sales and get them to the arena. that is their business. Taylor Made did their own sales videos this year and they are quite nice, probably done through their own staff. You can find the videos of their consignments on their own website.

Most of these big units have their own marketing staff. A good/decent quality camera and some basic editing software, a good turned out horse and a sunny day is all you need.

Agreed that a video can hide a lot of things but a video could certainly start conversation on a horse many people wouldn’t even lookup in the barns for further evaluation and in hindsight it can save someone time looking over every horse in the sale based on paper only to be disappointed by half of what they looked at. if they could eliminate a horse from their consideration right off the bat (based on a simple video), they can concentrate on the horses who struck their fancy. This also eliminates wasting the time and energy of sale staff presenting the horse. Sometimes spending a little extra to go the extra mile can start a trend that can pay off for both parties in the long run.

Bless your heart snaffle, you do try. People who attend these auctions aren’t conversationalists; they come with a purpose. They’ll pretty much look at every horse on the grounds at least once and don’t need to be prodded to do so by a video that they most likely wouldn’t have time to watch anyway. They trust their eye on what’s in front of them, not some video whose purpose may be to hide a flaw.

From the consignor’s point of view, the intent is to have, especially at the yearling sales, the horse peaking AT the sale. Producing a video a month or more out means that a horse is being shown in the middle of the prepping process. It may still be developing a top line, still trimming down a belly, getting some boxiness out of a fetlock, or developing a coat. Sales prep involves a lot more than pulling a yearling out of a field and giving it a 10 minute groom. Good professional prep can go 2-4 hours a day, every day, and to present a horse while it still may have 60-120 hours of work to be done on it isn’t fair to the sale process. The conversation that you mentioned may go along the lines of, “Man that yearling looks like poop, no need to look at it at the sale grounds.”

Just to add, if a consignor had such little faith in a horse that they wanted to discourage people from looking at it just to save a little work for their help, I’d hope that person has career options because they wouldn’t be in the horse selling business very long.

[LaurieB]

@dressagetraks

I scrolled through the catalog from today (racing age) as well as tomorrow just out of curiosity during a break at work. Is it usual to have that many withdrawn from the sale beforehand? Their page sure looked marked up.

Can anybody just show up and bid? Not that I have the throwaway $$ now, but I’ve toyed in fantasy thoughts with the idea of going to a sale and picking out a TB. That, of course, is years down the road, but I just wondered how open the process is. Do you have to be a known name to them?

I remember one of Dick Francis’ books, admittedly fiction, but he did his research. The protagonist’s rich father, who barely knew which end of a horse was which and knew nobody in racing, decided totally spur of the moment to attend the big yearling sale that evening. He sat there watching most of the evening, then abruptly bid himself as last bid on a megaprice yearling. Startled the sale staff quite a bit. They accepted the bid, but he had multiple people tracking him down and wanting his name and signature almost immediately. They wanted to verify funds before releasing the colt, too. This being fiction, of course, the yearling turned into a 2-year-old stakes winner and was favored for the (English) Derby at 3 the next year when the book ended.

In Horses of Racing Age sales (which yesterday’s sale was) it’s not unusual for many horses to be withdrawn. Lots of horses get entered just as a back-up plan, with the owners unsure at time of entry whether they want to continue racing or sell. The decision often depends on what happens between when the horse is entered and the sale.

Before you can bid at the big auction houses, you are supposed to establish credit. (You fill out forms and the auction company verifies the funds with your bank.)

But…if you’re there and you decide to raise your hand and buy something without doing so, the bid spotters will take your bid. You just have to then go straight to the office and pay for your horse. If you don’t, someone will quickly hunt you down. :lol:

Most people do get credit beforehand. The spur of the moment buyers usually only purchase inexpensive horses. But occasionally a buyer that is “unknown” to the auction company will get involved in six or seven figure bidding, and if you’re in the room when that happens, you can see/feel the buzz between the bid spotters and the auctioneers and pretty soon an auction house official or two will show up to watch the outcome and make themselves known to the errant bidder.

Liz Crow often tells the story of how she purchased and signed for Monomoy Girl for 100k–and then was quickly called to the office because Keeneland had no idea who she was. Once she assured them she was buying for Sol Kumin, she was then allowed to continue buying.

[skydy]

The two Runhappys that have gone through look good.
I missed the first Frosted.
Loved the Vancouver filly #63 that sold for 90k

I still can’t tell when the bidding is live and when it’s being pushed up to the reserve…

[snaffle1987]

One of the Runhappy’s went McIngvale

Lot 103, the Upstart filly was very nice. Lots of size and substance on her

Munnings sure does stamp them!

HIp 109 the California Chrome filly out of the Lily mare is really lovely.

[snaffle1987]

Have to say the only Jess’s Dream in the sale looked pretty nice as well. Too Bad Jess’s Dream had such a poor race record.

[Texarkana]

@snaffle1987

Have to say the only Jess’s Dream in the sale looked pretty nice as well. Too Bad Jess’s Dream had such a poor race record.

No worse than Danzig, or Malibu Moon, or Maclean’s Music.

Time will tell, although I don’t have my hopes up.

Jess’s Dream himself is such a good looking horse. I’m a sucker for his type.

[snaffle1987]

@Texarkana

No worse than Danzig, or Malibu Moon, or Maclean’s Music.

Time will tell, although I don’t have my hopes up.

Jess’s Dream himself is such a good looking horse. I’m a sucker for his type.

Yes, he is really lovely and the one in the sale has such a beautiful head and neck on him, very chiseled head. If he got some decent mares; hopefully he can prove himself. But if not, it may be hard to climb out of where he is at

[snaffle1987]

and to note, he was marked unsold at $27k

[snaffle1987]

Anchor Down’s look good. Don’t appear to be the biggest or extreme in substance. But very balanced, lovely toplines, good feet and legs. They seem to be demanding pretty decent prices for a stallion whos $2019 fee is only $7500.00. Great return on investment

Lot 31- Sold $100,000
Lot 42- Sold $31,000
Lot 85- Not Sold $45,000
Lot 127- Sold $67,000
Lot 147- Sold $90,000

[skydy]

I wonder what problem was surrounding #315…

[LaurieB]

The catalog for the Fasig Tipton Saratoga Sale is now available: www.fasigtipton.com/2019/The-Saratoga-Sale#/

[skydy]

Thanks LaurieB. It wasn’t up yesterday.

Interesting. C.C. has three out of Unbridled’s Song mares and one from a Grand Slam mare. It will be interesting to see what they look like. Duncan Taylor was right, his yearlings at the July sale were all over the place. Seemed liked high reserves…

I am learning, I could tell that the C.C. 195k RNA was just that, but it was very obvious.

Frosted really has some nice babies and 13 at Saratoga is impressive.