Full gut supplements that cover hind gut

[SummerUntamed]

I have read through some of the supplements posts but wanted to do a new post.

I have had my horse examined by 2 great vets and a chiropractor/acupuncturist to look at my horse who is 4.5 and still cross cantering in the hind.Not all the time but more often than we feel he should. Neither vet suspects ulcers but what do they know .

All exams, ultra sounds, chiro and acupuncture have been done and no lameness or other issues have been detected. Someone brought up to me that it COULD be an ulcer/hind gut issue and to try to treat it as such. I have never had this issue in any horse but I am willing to give it a shot before dumping another $1k into vets on top of what I am already spending in training.

What are you FAVORITE gut supplements that cover the FULL gut? Should I treat with a round of UG or GG first then start the supps? I am looking at the following:

Uckle GUT
GASTRIX
Smart gut (the complete one is VERY pricy)

Any others?

[Simkie]

If you think the horse has gastric ulcers, treat with a PPI. If you are very concerned about the hind gut–PPIs can hammer the hind gut–use ranitidine instead, which treats both gastric and hind gut, but it will take longer to heal stomach ulcers than a PPI. Equishure or Succeed will also treat the hind gut.

​​​​​​The supplements you list are really more for preventing ulcers in a healthy horse instead of healing existing ulcers. Better to use the tools that are actually proven to heal.

There’s a long thread about using nexium (which is esomeprazole, a PPI) here in the first page. It’s a very inexpensive alternative to gastrogard.

[cnd8]

Assure Guard Gold. It is a buffer for whole digestive track, PRE and PRObiotics, digestive enzymes, and psyllium.

[WNT]

RiteTrac from Kentucky Equine Research has a stomach buffer and Equishure for the hindgut. Both are antacids, the Equishure portion is a time-release where the antacid is coated in a fat that is digested through the stomach and small intestine to expose the active ingredient in the large intestine to control acidity there. It’s not inexpensive, but I’ve had customers cite noticeable results.

[cnd8]

I tried the RiteTrac for two months. No change in my horse. Vets switched me to Assure Guard Gold.

[sascha]

First things I think of when I think cross cantering are 1. weak stifles and 2. EPSM.

Ulcers aren’t really high up there at all. That said, I have a horse who had both weak stifles and hind gut issues. My go to treatments were internal blistering for the stifles, and Sucralfate for the ulcers. Omeprazole was a giant waste of money. I’m still mad I threw so much money at it when I should have been smart enough to see it wasn’t doing diddly. I also keep the beast on Biotic 8 and am sure to toss a dose or 2 of Sucralfate her way when doing something stressful.

[EventerAJ]

DAC CoolGut is a great product for gastric support. Once ulcers are treated appropriately, this helps keep fore and hindgut happy. https://www.feeddac.com/products/special-needs/cool-gut

[SummerUntamed]

@sascha

First things I think of when I think cross cantering are 1. weak stifles and 2. EPSM.

Ulcers aren’t really high up there at all. That said, I have a horse who had both weak stifles and hind gut issues. My go to treatments were internal blistering for the stifles, and Sucralfate for the ulcers. Omeprazole was a giant waste of money. I’m still mad I threw so much money at it when I should have been smart enough to see it wasn’t doing diddly. I also keep the beast on Biotic 8 and am sure to toss a dose or 2 of Sucralfate her way when doing something stressful.

He has been checked for both. Stifles are fine and no EPSM symptoms.

[mroades]

I have really liked the assure guard as well

[bathsheba8542]

RiteTrac and Equiotics.

[sascha]

@SummerUntamed

He has been checked for both. Stifles are fine and no EPSM symptoms.

Ok. Never mind that weak stifles are one of the main causes of cross cantering and don’t necessarily show as lame on vet exam.

Oh yeah, and cross cantering can also be a sign of EPSM.

So, unless you’ve tested for EPSM and actually injected and/or done rehab work on the stifles, you haven’t ruled out either.

​​​​​​I’d love to see a conformation shot of this horse! And a video of trotting away from the camera from directly behind!

[Obsidian_Fire]

@sascha is right. And, from my own personal experiences, most vets are not very well versed in diagnosing stifle issues. Also to consider would be SI.

[BoyleHeightsKid]

@Obsidian Fire

@sascha is right. And, from my own personal experiences, most vets are not very well versed in diagnosing stifle issues. Also to consider would be SI.

Yep SI soreness can also contribute for sure.

[SummerUntamed]

@sascha

Ok. Never mind that weak stifles are one of the main causes of cross cantering and don’t necessarily show as lame on vet exam.

Oh yeah, and cross cantering can also be a sign of EPSM.

So, unless you’ve tested for EPSM and actually injected and/or done rehab work on the stifles, you haven’t ruled out either.

​​​​​​I’d love to see a conformation shot of this horse! And a video of trotting away from the camera from directly behind!

I have had 3 vets check this horse. He has had rads and US of the pelvis and SI. They did not suspect any EPSM, ESSM, etc. Just Vit E deficiency. So, he is on a high dose (for a month now) and is improving slowly. Some days are better than others holding the canter correctly. He is 4.5 and in his 4th month of training so muscle wasting and not being fit could be the issue. I am not sure what else I should do to check the stifle and SI if 3 vets said that they are not of concern.

[sascha]

Like I said, the thing with weak stifles is they don’t necessarily show up in lameness exams. Cross cantering and occasionally “losing” a hind leg in downwards transitions are sometimes the only signs, and guaranteed because horses are out to mess with us, those signs will not show up during an exam unless the horse is so weak it’s happening with alarming frequency.

My most recent one, I was super lucky and caught a “lost” hind leg on video so my vet got to see what I was blabbing about my sound horse not actually being sound Wouldn’t have mattered, she would have been injected (blistered) and put on a rehab/strengthening program anyway given a couple other vague signs, but it was nice to have the video .

And again, if you haven’t tested for EPSM, you don’t know for sure. In fact, if high dose vitamin E is making an improvement, that might be a sign that testing is warranted. IIRC, the tests don’t need to be invasive biopsies anymore.

All that said, I’m glad your horse seems to be improving!

[BoyleHeightsKid]

@sascha

And again, if you haven’t tested for EPSM, you don’t know for sure. In fact, if high dose vitamin E is making an improvement, that might be a sign that testing is warranted. IIRC, the tests don’t need to be invasive biopsies anymore.

This^^ and you don’t have to necessarily test for EPSM… change the diet and see if there’s improvement.
https://www.ruralheritage.com/vet_clinic/epsmdiet.htm

[SummerUntamed]

@BoyleHeightsKid

This^^ and you don’t have to necessarily test for EPSM… change the diet and see if there’s improvement.
https://www.ruralheritage.com/vet_clinic/epsmdiet.htm

He is on this diet right now. Just waiting and watching for improvement.

[SummerUntamed]

@sascha

Like I said, the thing with weak stifles is they don’t necessarily show up in lameness exams. Cross cantering and occasionally “losing” a hind leg in downwards transitions are sometimes the only signs, and guaranteed because horses are out to mess with us, those signs will not show up during an exam unless the horse is so weak it’s happening with alarming frequency.

My most recent one, I was super lucky and caught a “lost” hind leg on video so my vet got to see what I was blabbing about my sound horse not actually being sound Wouldn’t have mattered, she would have been injected (blistered) and put on a rehab/strengthening program anyway given a couple other vague signs, but it was nice to have the video .

And again, if you haven’t tested for EPSM, you don’t know for sure. In fact, if high dose vitamin E is making an improvement, that might be a sign that testing is warranted. IIRC, the tests don’t need to be invasive biopsies anymore.

All that said, I’m glad your horse seems to be improving!

The vet only suggested a biopsy but didn’t feel the need to do it now. What other test? I know you can do a hair test but I thought that was only for PSSM1. I would imagine this horse would display more symptoms but I could be wrong. First time dealing with this shit.

[SummerUntamed]

I think I found the test. This would be much less expensive than a muscle biopsy. He is insured but if the treatment is the same…

http://equiseq.com/pssm2-symptoms

[SummerUntamed]

@sascha

Ok. Never mind that weak stifles are one of the main causes of cross cantering and don’t necessarily show as lame on vet exam.

Oh yeah, and cross cantering can also be a sign of EPSM.

So, unless you’ve tested for EPSM and actually injected and/or done rehab work on the stifles, you haven’t ruled out either.

​​​​​​I’d love to see a conformation shot of this horse! And a video of trotting away from the camera from directly behind!

Here is a video sent to me right before purchase. You can see a cross canter at the end of the video. Please keep in mind the right before this video he has only been ridden 2x per week for a couple months. He is 4 and was started at 3 (for 3 mos) then sent home. I am waiting on new video from my current trainer. I haven’t been able to visit him or ride him in the arena myself because I lost my home and business in the Camp Fire in Northern CA so life has been quite hectic. I just want my horse to be ok. I am really in love with him.

https://vimeo.com/273035310/3d03180be0