Full-time training — But what happens when you stay home?

[BaysnBlaze]

What would you do type of post, thanks for bearing with me!

My horse is in full training (5 services/week, including 1 lunge day and mix of 4 training rides or lessons). We only have 1 trainer, no assistants. No showing requirement but everyone shows at some point (or more) throughout the year.

What would you expect of services if you stay home while trainer goes to a horse show? Would it be expected that training fee is deducted for any day where services (training ride, lesson or lunge) were not available because you elected not to go to the show?

[takingitinstride]

I think the answer here is it kinda depends.

Most importantly - How often is the trainer gone for a show? Is it 3 weeks out of a month or once a week every other month? The frequency here is important.

If it was a regular (monthly) occurrence I would expect there to maybe be a credit if the services consistently can’t be fulfilled a week out of a month. If they are gone a lot (and you are not going with them) and they are not willing to do a credit it probably is not the right program for you and your horse.

I will also say one thing to consider is are you paying market rate? I’ve been a situation before where I was paying below market rate so when the trainer was gone for a week I didn’t worry about the training ride being missed even though I paid for it because I knew all in all (board, lessons, training) my trainer was charging a fair price.

I would discuss with your trainer. They may have a solution that work for you … my trainer for example would have a friend come and do lessons while away.

[paw]

I would not expect a discount for the times the trainer was away.

Not that I think that that is actually reasonable, but it’s how the industry tends to work. I’m not happy with the industry, btw, especially with its reliance on trainer’s services. Horses definately need to be out of their stalls every day, but why does the client always have to be overseen when riding their horse? To me, that’s counterproductive - the best moments often occur when you and the horse are just messing around trying to figure out an exercise.

But alas, the h/j world has evolved into this mess where the client is almost afraid to ride the horse without the trainer nearby. BTDT, so am speaking from experience, but where’s the fun in that?

Still, many pros price their services that way. You always have the option to negotiate, or to take your business elsewhere.

[BaysnBlaze]

First of all, thank you for your insight!

What would you consider “market rate” for a service?

My trainer, on average, is gone for 1-2 weeks from May-October (with high possibilities of an off chance of being gone for a week in early spring)

[BaysnBlaze]

@paw I meant to include you in my above comment!

[Peggy]

If the trainer is gone a total of 1-2 weeks over a six-month period (so maybe 4-5 weekend shows or a few more one-day shows??) plus an additional week, that doesn’t seem so bad. If it’s 1-2 weeks out of every month for those six months, then it’s more of a problem.

I’ve been in programs where there were no lessons (or lessons that weren’t great or with someone that the trainer wouldn’t let teach over fences) and the trainer would be gone a week or more out of most months. There was someone there to exercise the horses. Not acceptable in my opinion. More recently I was in a program where there was always someone competent to teach over fences at all times. Way better.

[blondewithchrome]

I have been in both programs - one where you pay for the weeks you use (ie it was base board + weekly services and each month you paid board for the current month plus the services used in the prior month). For that program, showing rides and lessons were not included and were more expensive than the weekly services package so you paid somewhat a la carte.

I have also been in true “fixed rate” programs where the cost is the cost, and trainer is gone 1-3 weeks every month. You use the package for pro rides and lessons or coaching at shows, but if you chose to stay home, you just ate the cost. I was strategic about planning extra pro rides or extra lessons weeks before trainer left to get as many of my services as I paid for. This type of program incentivizes you to go to ththe show without “requiring” it because you lose the rides you don’t use, so it makes sense to show it you want to get your full package that month.

I understand why trainers do the latter - it’s a lot easier to account for and encourages clients to use all services but I don’t love the fact that there’s no flexibility in programs like that. I don’t mind it if I feel like it’s a decent cost and I like the program, so it is really a question of what your budget and tolerance is.

[findeight]

@BaysnBlaze

What would you consider “market rate” for a service?

What other barns in your area and discipline are charging for the similar board and services is the market rate.

If you moved, what would it cost you compared to where you are now? How much more or less?

If you are pleased with the services offered and the quality of management where you are it might make more sense to stay where you are despite not using some services you are charged for. If that is not the only thing you are not happy with, you probably should move.

There is no etched in stone decision here, it just depends. But never feel you are married to or have any kind of relationship outside of a business one with any trainer…you don’t. They are running a business and you are a paying client.

[takingitinstride]

I would consider “market rate” what it would cost to be in a similar program in the general area. For example, my board and training is about $1,650 per horse - but similar programs in the area would be closer to $1,900 a month so I would consider what I pay to be “below market rate”.

I will say in my opinion, your trainer is not gone enough to consider this an issue (you expressed it was maybe 1-2 weeks every six months). If it was greater frequency it may warrant a conversation but to me this seems fine.

I know sometimes with horses it feels like you aren’t getting everything you pay for but I assure you if your horse is getting good care and management - you are getting what you paid for. The cost of everything is insane and your trainer is likely just covering most of there cost associated with the boarding and the margin on lessons/training is relatively thin. I try to give our hard working professionals a little grace especially if I feel like the horses are getting excellent care.

[Madison]

In a program where my trainer is gone one to two weeks a month for shows, and I’m paying full training board, I expect them to have arranged for appropriate rides from someone while they are gone, even if that means a good working student doing flatwork with my horse to keep him fit and in work mode. I also would be planning to go to the shows with them most of the months, but staying home here and there. I would not expect a discount in the months I choose not to show. From their perspective, barns/trainers don’t make their living off of boarding, and if you aren’t showing, you are taking a stall that they could potentially rent to a customer who does want to show. So, I see both sides of it, and don’t expect my horse to be left sitting for all that time, but also don’t expect a discount.

[paw]

@Madison

expect them to have arranged for appropriate rides from someone while they are gone, even if that means a good working student doing flatwork with my horse to keep him fit and in work mode.

Though the key here is “appropriate” rides, not just whoever happens to be around that day. BTDT, too (I left that “program”).

Part of the issue is your reason for being at this barn - are you expecting to show at some point? If not, might be better to look for another program. If you are hoping to show, you should evaluate whether you can be comfortable paying for a level of service you might not always get.

For myself, I’d rather pay a consistent fee every month than be nickled and dimed for every service I actually use (which can devolve into “hold for farrier” and such). YMMV. But my point stands - you’re likely not going to get far trying to change a pro’s program to suit your particular situation.

[Annie10]

I may be dissenting here, but I’m not in the habit of paying for services I’m not receiving or for work that is not being done. Unless there is an equally capable assistant trainer or upper working student or something like that that’s going to pick up the slack while your trainer is gone, there should be some renegotiation or discounting of your bill or something like that. Obviously, you would still need to pay any applicable fees for boarding and the care of the actual Animal but if there’s two weeks of training board that you’re not getting then you shouldn’t be paying for that. JMHO

[endlessclimb]

Same. I’m trying to think of it in terms of - pretend it’s not a show, pretend the trainer takes a week of well needed vacation.

Ok, that’s fine. But if I had a once a week housekeeper that took a well needed week off, I wouldn’t expect to pay for that service during that week. Or had a weekly PT session at the gym. Or a grocery delivery service.

If it’s not getting done, the provider should not get paid.

[trubandloki]

I still get paid when I take time off from work…

So I guess one has to decide where they draw the line in the sand for this.
The amount the OP said their trainer is not around, I would consider my vacation pay to that trainer.

I also look at it from the point of view that you ask yourself, does this trainer go above and beyond when they are there? If you need more help than technically you are paying for, are they giving it?

I also agree that if the trainer was away for weeks every month than there needs to be something arranged for those who are not showing.

In the end, what does your boarding/training contract say?

[Annie10]

I guess it would depend on if the trainer/housekeeper etc is self employed. If someone is in the employ of another they normally earn vacation time etc. plus in any jobs I have held when I was on vacation or otherwise unavailable there were others to pick up any slack if needed. I don’t know too many people working for others who take a two week vacation every month or trainers who only show once a year.
different situation and circumstances.
Trainer most likely is self employed. Plus she’s not on vacation at the horse show, she’s working. Albeit hard, but still working. If it’s one two week show a year I wouldn’t sweat it. If it’s every month and someone is paying for training rides or lessons the trainer needs to arrange for that to happen in her absence or not bill for it.

[trubandloki]

@Annie10

If someone is paying for training rides or lessons the trainer needs to arrange for that to happen in her absence or not bill for it.

Technically the someone is not paying for training rides and getting billed for training rides. They are playing a lump sum for a broad array of things (stall, bedding, feed, turn out, interaction with the trainer).

[Annie10]

Is the “interaction” included in the board or is there a different rate set for services without that interaction? If there’s “interaction” that is expected for the rate paid then it needs to happen, or the OP should be compensated in some way.
If I’m paying $2000 a month to include 4 lessons/training rides a week, for a total of 16, and I only get 8 every month bc the trainer is gone, that’s not acceptable. I’m paying for something and not getting it.
Either discount the services, or provide a good working student it assistant trainer to pick up the slack.

[Tha_Ridge]

@blondewithchrome

I have also been in true “fixed rate” programs where the cost is the cost, and trainer is gone 1-3 weeks every month. You use the package for pro rides and lessons or coaching at shows, but if you chose to stay home, you just ate the cost. I was strategic about planning extra pro rides or extra lessons weeks before trainer left to get as many of my services as I paid for. This type of program incentivizes you to go to ththe show without “requiring” it because you lose the rides you don’t use, so it makes sense to show it you want to get your full package that month.

I’m in this program — there is one board option and it is all-inclusive of rides and lessons — but my trainer intentionally keeps that price very competitive for our area so that clients who don’t show a ton don’t feel like they’re missing out. He’s also very good about making sure that those clients get extra attention/lessons when we are home, e.g., opening the barn on a day it normally isn’t and teaching lessons to those who had to stay home.

Edited to add that my trainer’s program doesn’t promise a set number of rides or lessons each month. Some months, I might lesson almost every day, some months, if we’ve been showing a lot, the horses hang out in turn out and maybe get a single pro hack a week. I think not setting the expectation of “You will always get X lessons per week” helps keep clients happier because no one feels like they’re missing out on services; they feel like they’re actually getting a program that’s individualized to them and their horse — and that’s true.

[mmeqcenter]

Why do we think it’s okay to be charged for services we can’t receive, just because it’s the horse world?
Sheesh.

If I’m paying for a service, I expect it to be available for my use. There is a big difference between the payee choosing not to use the service, and the service just not actually being available.

I would expect the trainer to provide a suitable backup trainer or coach while they’re out of town. Or I would expect the paid fees to be put towards future services, or refunded.
If trainer is only gone one or two weeks per year, there’s no reason they can’t let people use their missed ride(s) in the next month or two.

These are things that should be discussed BEFORE you move to a barn. And they should be detailed in the board and training contract.

[trubandloki]

@mmeqcenter

Why do we think it’s okay to be charged for services we can’t receive, just because it’s the horse world?
Sheesh.

If I’m paying for a service, I expect it to be available for my use. There is a big difference between the payee choosing not to use the service, and the service just not actually being available.

I do not reach out to Dish when the weather causes my Dish service to not work right.
I do not reach out to Verizon when I am in an area that does not have cell service.

I could go on, but the list is long and not just the horse world.

@mmeqcenter

These are things that should be discussed BEFORE you move to a barn. And they should be detailed in the board and training contract.

I agree with this 100%. That is why I asked what the OP’s boarding contract says.

My thoughts on this would be different if this trainer was gone for a week or more every month all summer long.
This trainer is gone for two weeks in a six month time span.
I find in most cases, the trainer gives more than that amount of extra time to their clients over that time so I personally would not have a problem with this amount of missing lessons/rides.

You (general) are allowed to feel differently.