I recently bought a coming 4 yr old gelding, very lightly started, I bought him out of the field after some time off so didn’t ride him prior to, just saw videos of him walk trot and pop over a few tiny xpoles. Have been working with him for about the last month, Prev owner was riding him in a French link snaffle but did also mention he was not very broke in the mouth yet when he went on time off. I have started a few of my own and they have all been very soft and quiet mouthed, easy to get going. This guys mouth feels like steel and he quite often will open his mouth up and twist his head around, while standing, and at all gaits. Have tried a few different bits with him, he seems to like the change for the first few rides and eventually ends up the same way.I have tried thick & thin French link lozenge, d ring and loose ring varieties, kk loose ring French link, Mullen mouth duo, full cheek French link with lozenge. Many of those are pretty close the same I realize lol but those are my baby go tos. Does not do any of this on the lunge in a halter. Maybe he just needs more work but I get the feeling it’s the bit, and I don’t want to spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars testing out new ones lol. Just hoping maybe someone has had similar experience with a baby? He has had his mouth checked by both a dentist and a vet, been floated and no other issues of note. Other than the mouth/head twisting stuff he is quite an agreeable guy.
Have a chiropractor look at him. Could very well have nothing to do with his mouth
Maybe a TMJ issue?
Could it possibly be something to do with the bridle and irritating his facial nerves or maybe putting pressure on an uncomfortable place for this horse ? I have one, a hunter, that definitely prefers having no noseband, so that’s how she goes until show time. Good luck!
You might also have his teeth checked.
I’d try a bit less bridle/hackamore, and see how he responds. Then you know if it’s the bit, the bridle, the weight of the rider in the saddle, etc.
Did the dentist check how much space there is for a bit? Mine was very fussy in the mouth and the dentist showed me the gap between her top and bottom gums was tiny. She’s much more settled now in a 12mm snaffle.
Can you just put the bridle on him and work him in the halter over it until he’s comfortable working with the bit in his mouth with no pressure? Maybe lunge some in some lightweight loose side reins? The heavy donuts flop around and jiggle their mouth, so not that kind. I don’t think it’s the bit just that he isn’t broke in the mouth and needs some extra work building up to it. Personally I’d be using a full cheek duo/nathe on him if he were mine so he gets some of that similar side of the face pressure that he’s used to from a halter and the bit is really stable in his mouth.
Yes, have been there with my own that I started. I’ve ridden tons of horses in my 30+ years of riding - from babies to experienced GP horses, problem horses, and everything in between - tb’s, wb’s, qh’s, draft crosses, etc. and I had never come across one that felt in the mouth like my guy. I always felt like he was just so uncomfortable in a bit and I could never properly flat him. Like yours, he is a very agreeable guy so I always knew it was a discomfort thing. He would get rubs and bruises from the most benign seeming bits. I ended up finally putting him in a hackamore and it was life changing. Suddenly everything became very easy. The whole time he knew what I was trying to ask, but was too uncomfortable to do it. The horse blossomed in a hackamore. Now he has moved up to 1.2M jumpers and we recently tried a thin (he has hardly any room in his mouth) leather bit WITH the hackamore (the HS one) as we found he would get a little heavy on the backside and couldn’t turn tightly in jump offs in the hackamore. He went really really well in the leather bit with hackmore and not a mark in his mouth. Every other bit drastically negatively affected the quality of his gait and jump. It would have been easy to say he was being difficult or just tied a flash around him and forced him along, but I knew it was a pain thing and that he deserves to feel comfortable in his equipment. The leather snaffle I have I got from Sweet Billy Bits on Etsy. I had her make it with a flexible nylon rope core in case he chews through the leather. Since I had her make that one she switched to using a different type of rope core that is softer, thinner, and more flexible.
So yes, I do believe that your horse could really be uncomfortable with bits. I feel like I have been beating my head against a wall for the last few years since I started him but I continued to advocate for him and I’m glad I did. For the record, I tried many of the bits you have tried, along with some others.
Maybe try something with tongue relief? Bombers and Myler have a few options, and both companies have been knocked off.
If the dentist/vet thinks the mouth is “normal”, and the wolf teeth have been removed and molars floated, you likely just haven’t found the right bit yet. It’s not that abnormal that you may have to try others. Probably a “mullen mouth” unjointed type bit… there are lots of possibilities, all are unjointed. I’m using one right now with two greenies in my barn with similar issues to yours, unjointed bar, big tongue relief curve, and full cheeks. I can’t tell you what it’s called, because I never bought this bit, it just showed up in a bag full of crap that a boarder left at my barn 25 years ago. But it works, for a horse like this. It just looks like a full cheeked snaffle when on the horse, I don’t know if those are “fashionable” right now, but I don’t really care one way or the other about that. Good luck!
If everything checks out physically, he might just not have been started properly in the first place. Just IMHE, you have to teach a soft mouth. If they don’t understand what pressure on the mouth means, they’ll just brace and worry and fight it, no matter the bit.
You could try remouthing him. I’d do this starting on the ground, bridle on, and ask him to give laterally first. Just gentle pressure, when he gives, release. Then graduate to under saddle. Once he understands pressure on his mouth, and knows how to give without getting stressed, then you can start trying different bits. But at the first stages of putting a mouth on a horse, you’re really just working with gentle pressure on the lips. Unless there’s something really unusual or painful in their mouth, the type of bit doesn’t matter that much, as long as it’s simple and soft.
Maybe try riding him in a rope halter and see how he reacts! I would start on the ground with helping him learn to give to pressure then horizontal flexion so he learns to relax his jaw and give to pressure. Once he’s good with that, then move to riding him while still in the rope halter. Do loads and loads of bending back and forth till it’s like butter. I would not move to vertical flexion as that asks more of their jaw muscles and could be where the issue has risen from. If they can’t bend horizontal, they won’t be able to bend vertically either.
Of course - after ruling out a medical issue.
Ruling out any medical issues would be my first step as many have mentioned.
That being said. I, too, have a funny sensitive-mouthed youngster. Chestnut mare, go figure. Ha!
After making sure she was up to take on dental and had bodywork/chiro, I started down the rabbit hole of different bits. Tried different mouth pieces (single joint, double joint, mullen), different materials (rubber, sweet iron, regular ole metal, leather, titanium), and different cheek pieces (D-ring, full cheek, loose ring).
She really didn’t like the double joint or the mullen mouth, so I figured she didn’t like a ton of tongue pressure. Side-piece didn’t really make a big different, but of all the different bits I had tried, she seemed the most ‘agreeable’ in a single joint leather-covered loose ring. That was until I was chatting with a trainer at the barn and she let me try a Fager bit. She had several I could try, but started with the single joint since that was what she was most happy with. Lily Fager FSS was the model name.
Low and behold, it’s the happiest she’s ever been with a bit. Actually seemed willing to take contact. Was a little busy in the mouth, so started riding her with a figure 8 or flash to encourage a quiet mouth (not tight, just enough to limit the amount she could open).
Maybe she has a smaller mouth, as someone suggested above. But she really seems happy with the design of this bit!
I end up riding elderly lesson horses.
These horses do not like all the Fager bits I’ve tried on them, but the ones they do like they like a great deal.
With my hands (I have MS) they do not like any type of tongue relief bit, not at all, get that thing out of my mouth, why don’t you learn to ride, etc… They will accept the regular single jointed snaffle but it is NQR for them.
The best Fager snaffle for my hands is the Bianca, titanium, double jointed with a roller in the middle. The best bradoon for me is the Alice whose mouthpiece is like the Bianca. They just relax in these snaffles, reach out willingly for contact, forgive me my many hand faults, and my riding teacher likes how the horses react to them.
Right now I am doing double bridles on both of the horses I ride, the Fager Victoria Mullen Mouth curb (no longer made) and the Alice bradoon. Both ladies who let me ride their horses have told me that they don’t want me riding their horses in anything else. These horses are fine with some of the Fager snaffles, they are just so much better in the double bridle with the Fager bits. My riding teacher likes that the double bridle bits are a lot lighter too.
Over the past few years I gave my riding teacher some of the titanium coated regular style bits. I introduce the horse to a titanium bit and all of a sudden they have to have a titanium bit of their own and they will “go on strike”, showing irritation with the stainless steel or other metal bits. The horses just seem to be happier with the titanium bits in their mouths and they are even happier with the Fager titanium bits in their mouths.
I’ve stopped even looking at other bits because the horses are so much happier with the Fager bits that are suitable for my hands.
Instead of bit, what sort of bridle are you using? I have a gelding who was (still is a bit) fussy with his head and mouth but was happiest in a level 1 Myler double jointed D-ring thingy with a Micklem bridle, but recently put him into a eggbutt lozenge bit (same bridle) that he sucks back and chews on but is even happier. I had previously tried different bits all with a regular bridle or a figure-8 and he would never really settle.
